rec.autos.simulators

by **Per Bostr?** » Sun, 14 Nov 1999 04:00:00

Im three seconds behind myself.
Just got a MSFF-wheel and forced to use my feet for throttle and brake.
Thats no got - yet. Before I had a Thrustmaster Formula Sprint and used it
with the paddles for throt and brake. Ive founds out that my hands are more
precise than my feet, or is it just training? Now I also know that the MSFF
wheel is miles better in steering precision, now I can line up right to the
edge of the track. Though I will never use FF with GPL - just hate it. With
SCGT im forced to use the FFand I just cant see no realism in it just some
kind of vibration gimmick.

What I like to say is that I would like to have something like the
Thrustmaster wheel with the non-digital paddles but with the steering
precision of the MSFF. Is that a caramel to find somewhere?
P

by **Daxe Rexfor** » Sun, 14 Nov 1999 04:00:00

>Im three seconds behind myself.

You can be in two places at the same time? I would like to know how to do
this, it could save me a lot of money paying my employees.

The indignity of having to use your feet for pedals escapes me. While we are
at it, who is forcing you to use the wheel? Are you in prison or something?

It's the way you drive a car unless you are handicapped. There isn't much
training involved. What were you using to shift gears?

Maybe you could close one eye and shut off the sound, too. That would make
it much nicer.

Who is forcing you to use FF? Either shut the FF off on the wheel, or you
might consider unchecking the "Force Feedback" box. I'm no expert, but that
*might* stop those awful force feedback effects. After all, you wouldn't
want to shake your hands around while you are trying to work the gas and
brake buttons. That would interfere with your precision button pressing.

Nobody wants to use their hands for gas and brake except you and people who
have no choice. If you want caramels, go to a candy store. You could also
go into your Sidewinder software and create a profile that assigns keyboard
keys to the paddles and then assign the gas and brake to those keys in the
game. On the other hand, I can't help you with trying to assign the pedals
for shifting. I assume you will use them for that since your hands will be
busy with the gas and brake and steering.

Bizzare.

~daxe

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by **Per Bostr?** » Sun, 14 Nov 1999 04:00:00

Well Dave, thanks for your advices, I certainly remind me of the off-FF in
SCGT thanks to you. As for shfting I used the buttons on the Thrust-wheel,
worked fine, For everything else I just say - I happy not to be employeed by
you, your ironic way would kill me.

>>Im three seconds behind myself.

>You can be in two places at the same time? I would like to know how to do
>this, it could save me a lot of money paying my employees.

>>Just got a MSFF-wheel and forced to use my feet for throttle and brake.

>The indignity of having to use your feet for pedals escapes me. While we
are
>at it, who is forcing you to use the wheel? Are you in prison or
something?

>>Thats no got - yet. Before I had a Thrustmaster Formula Sprint and used
it
>>with the paddles for throt and brake. Ive founds out that my hands are
>more
>>precise than my feet, or is it just training?

>It's the way you drive a car unless you are handicapped. There isn't much
>training involved. What were you using to shift gears?

>>Now I also know that the MSFF
>>wheel is miles better in steering precision, now I can line up right to
the
>>edge of the track. Though I will never use FF with GPL - just hate it.

>Maybe you could close one eye and shut off the sound, too. That would make
>it much nicer.

>>With
>>SCGT im forced to use the FFand I just cant see no realism in it just
>some
>>kind of vibration gimmick.

>Who is forcing you to use FF? Either shut the FF off on the wheel, or you
>might consider unchecking the "Force Feedback" box. I'm no expert, but
that
>*might* stop those awful force feedback effects. After all, you wouldn't
>want to shake your hands around while you are trying to work the gas and
>brake buttons. That would interfere with your precision button pressing.

>>What I like to say is that I would like to have something like the
>>Thrustmaster wheel with the non-digital paddles but with the steering
>>precision of the MSFF. Is that a caramel to find somewhere?

>Nobody wants to use their hands for gas and brake except you and people who
>have no choice. If you want caramels, go to a candy store. You could also
>go into your Sidewinder software and create a profile that assigns keyboard
>keys to the paddles and then assign the gas and brake to those keys in the
>game. On the other hand, I can't help you with trying to assign the pedals
>for shifting. I assume you will use them for that since your hands will be
>busy with the gas and brake and steering.

>Bizzare.

>~daxe

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by **Bart Westr** » Sun, 14 Nov 1999 04:00:00

You may get a better feel if you take of your shoes! That is how I race with
the MSFF. (Or did you operate the TM Sprint with gloves on? ;)

The other thing you can try is take a squash ball (Dunlop yellow dot), cut
it in half and put one half under the brake pedal. It fits in there like it
was made for it. Then calibrate pressing the brake to a level where you feel
a good resistance, which is a little short of the full range. The result of
this is a more or less pressure sensitive brake effect.

Apart from these measures, it's only natural that takes time to learn using
your feet instead of your hands. Different coordination alltogether.

Regards
Bart Westra

by **Daxe Rexfor** » Sun, 14 Nov 1999 04:00:00

>Well Dave, thanks for your advices, ........For everything else I just

say - I happy not to be >employeed by

>you, your ironic way would kill me.

That's OK..I don't people who can't read, anyway.

daXe

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by **Kurt Steinboc** » Sun, 14 Nov 1999 04:00:00

>>Well Dave, thanks for your advices, ........For everything else I just
>say - I happy not to be >employeed by
>>you, your ironic way would kill me.

>That's OK..I don't people who can't read, anyway.

>daXe

Well, Daxe, clearly the man can read ... at least as well as you can write,
apparently.

Jeez, you're a little pissy today.

Kurt Steinbock

by **Tony Jeste** » Sun, 14 Nov 1999 04:00:00

Your lack of manners is amazing. I am embarrassed to even be a part of
this newsgroup sometimes.
-Tony-

> Hmm..you were supposed to pick up the word I left out through
> telepathy..didn't you get it? It was a test..you failed... Ptthhllppptt!!!
> (hiding under desk)

> :o)

> The guy is a dolt. If he doesn't like FF, why did he get a FF wheel? Why
> didn't he just read the info that comes with the wheel and answer his own
> question about using paddles for throttle and brake? And the FF option in
> SCGT is right there in the options screens. It's not like you have to edit
> an .ini file or something. The guy obviously is too lazy to read anything
> and wants us to do it for him. That pisses me off, so there you go. I
> answered his question about how to use the paddles for throttle and brake,
> and my price for doing his reading and thinking for him is being sarcastic
> towards him.

> Nobody else answered his question about using paddles for throttle and
> brake, either, I noticed, sarcasm or no sarcasm.

> daxe (not dave)

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by **Leo Landma** » Mon, 15 Nov 1999 04:00:00

Both actually. You'll have to get used to driving with your feet, and will
get much better at it as the weeks get by. But ultimately you will always be
a little faster using your fingertips. I have no doubt about that. It's just
not very much like driving a real car IMHO.

You might try the PDPI game card for your TM wheel. It's supposed to be more
precise than a soundcard game port. I don't have one, so can't comment any
further. Ask around.

Bye,
Leo

by **Daxe Rexfor** » Mon, 15 Nov 1999 04:00:00

>Well, Daxe, clearly the man can read ... at least as well as you can write,
>apparently.

Hmm..you were supposed to pick up the word I left out through
telepathy..didn't you get it? It was a test..you failed... Ptthhllppptt!!!
(hiding under desk)

:o)

The guy is a dolt. If he doesn't like FF, why did he get a FF wheel? Why
didn't he just read the info that comes with the wheel and answer his own
question about using paddles for throttle and brake? And the FF option in
SCGT is right there in the options screens. It's not like you have to edit
an .ini file or something. The guy obviously is too lazy to read anything
and wants us to do it for him. That pisses me off, so there you go. I
answered his question about how to use the paddles for throttle and brake,
and my price for doing his reading and thinking for him is being sarcastic
towards him.

Nobody else answered his question about using paddles for throttle and
brake, either, I noticed, sarcasm or no sarcasm.

daxe (not dave)

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by **Daxe Rexfor** » Mon, 15 Nov 1999 04:00:00

>Your lack of manners is amazing. I am embarrassed to even be a part of
>this newsgroup sometimes.
>-Tony-

As I (and others) have noted in this NG many times, I am an ***. If
you don't like what I write, killfile me.

~daxe

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by **Steve Blankenshi** » Mon, 15 Nov 1999 04:00:00

> Im three seconds behind myself.
> Just got a MSFF-wheel and forced to use my feet for throttle and brake.
> Thats no got - yet. Before I had a Thrustmaster Formula Sprint and used
it
> with the paddles for throt and brake. Ive founds out that my hands are
more
> precise than my feet, or is it just training?

No, you're right that your hands and fingers are more sensitive than your
feet and toes. That shouldn't surprise too many. However, with practice
you will get accustomed to the pedals, and since you can run them on
separate axes allowing simultaneous throttle and brake application, you
should end up quicker. When I was using my old GP1, I found that using my
hands for throttle, brake, and shifting reduced my steering precision as
well.

<snip>

The new Ferrari-badged Guillemot wheels supposedly use analog paddles and
digital sensors, and can be used with or without foot pedals. Remains to be
seen how well they work.

Cheers,

Steve Blankenship

by **Daxe Rexfor** » Mon, 15 Nov 1999 04:00:00

>No, you're right that your hands and fingers are more sensitive than your
>feet and toes. That shouldn't surprise too many. However, with practice
>you will get accustomed to the pedals, and since you can run them on
>separate axes allowing simultaneous throttle and brake application, you
>should end up quicker.

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned taking your shoes off when you use
the pedals on the MSFF. I use either bare feet or socks and actually seem
to use my toes rather than my whole foot. I can recommend you try this,
also. I always make my Dad try out the latest racing sim/game and he can't
seem to work the pedals because he can't even feel them with his shoes on!
He wonders why the car won't move and it's because he inadvertently has the
brake depressed while he's trying to accelerate. (And this is the guy who
taught me to drive...uh oh!)

I don't have any problems with co-ordination, but using my hands for all
these things seems nightmarish. In the heat of a moment it just seems like
you would hit the wrong 'pedal' and up or downshift at an inopportune
moment. (Visions of downshifting instead of upshifting in N3 come to mind,
popping the motor with 2 laps to go) Plus, logistically, how do you reach
the paddles all the time? If they are stationary, then you can't have your
hands on the wheel to steer and shift, and if they travel with the wheel (as
they do on the MSFF) then they can get to a pretty strange angle to try and
reach, let alone squeeze/press with accuracy.

Look Ma, no rudeness!

daxe

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by **Joel Willstei** » Mon, 15 Nov 1999 04:00:00

Well, I love my MSFF in GPL. And yes it took nearly a month before my
times were consistant and better everywhere. But that was because the
wheel/car was fighting me,not a bunch of springs just expanding and
contracting. And when the car got light it was a whole new driving
experience. As for SCGT,yes I will most certainly agree that the FF issues
really need to be addressed with another patch.

Joel Willstein

by **Steve Blankensh** » Mon, 15 Nov 1999 04:00:00

<snip>
my whole foot. I can recommend you try this,also.<

I ALWAYS wear my lucky woolly cycling socks, else it just wouldn't feel right!
And the toes got the nod with either TM or Logitech pedals, but with my CH's,
the whole foot gets the call. SO much more comfy...

things seems nightmarish.<

My sentiments exactly. Only with automatic gearchange does it feel really
good. Obviously that's out for GPL due to the performance hit, but I admit I
still use it in GP2 and remain quicker with paddles than pedals in it.

stationary, then you can't have your hands on the wheel to steer and shift, and
if they travel with the wheel (as they do on the MSFF) then they can get to a
pretty strange angle to try and reach, let alone squeeze/press with accuracy.<

They do move with the wheel, and at least on the old GP1's, were well-placed
and quite intuitive to use. However, I rode/raced motorcycles for years so I'm
accustomed to using my hands for such. A wheel with paddles works great for
GP500, by the way.

Hey; let's not start a trend here...:-)

Cheers,

Steve Blankenship

remove "edy" from address for email

by **Daxe Rexfor** » Mon, 15 Nov 1999 04:00:00

>>Look Ma, no rudeness!<

>Hey; let's not start a trend here...:-)

Sorry..I'll have to remember to be more unpleasant next time.

:o)

daxe

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rec.autos.simulators

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