rec.autos.simulators

N2002 Initial Impression

Don Burnett

N2002 Initial Impression

by Don Burnett » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 02:20:54

Hmm, using the default "fast" setup, I see no pull to the left at both demo
tracks.

Don Burnette



> The pull to the left is still there, as it should be. He must be using the
> default "easy" setup or something. Physics are essentially the same, maybe
a
> tweak or two, but nothing I noticed.

> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Morgan Vincent Wooten
> System Specs:
>     http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------





> > >First and most obvious: The pull to the left is gone pretty much
> completely,
> > >at least in the default fast setup for both tracks. Seems like the car
is
> > >more stable also. I think a lot of folks are going to be very pleased
> with
> > >this. Myself, I had gotten used to the pull, but it didn't take any
> getting
> > >used to go back to not having a pull.

> > Thanks for the review, I'm still downloading it, but..
> > Pull to the left gone, car more stable and easier to drive..
> > Does the demo only come with an arcade mode, did Sierra wanted to make
> > Nascar 2002 more easier for the general public, or was the pull to the
> > left and the physics in N4 way off?
> > Or did the real Nascars become so much easier to drive since last
> > year?

> > Andre

Don Burnett

N2002 Initial Impression

by Don Burnett » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 02:22:52




> > Ok, now that I have the framerate issue out of the way and am actually
> > e***d about trying it now, I'll give my first impression after about
30
> > minutes of play.
> > As far as the framerates, mine are now acceptable levels, 50-70 fps
> > depending on traffic.  I would think if they plan on including an opengl
> > rasterizer like they did with N4 we should see better framerates with
it.
> My
> > system is based on an Athlon XP1600 ( 1.4 ghz), Hercules GeForce2 ti200,
> 512
> > mb ddr ram, Soundblaster Audigy, and Windows XP.

> >LARGE SNIP<

> What resolution and colour depth are you using, mate ? I've got an Athlon
> 1800+ and Geforce 3 Ti500 and framerates at 1280x980(32bit) are in the
40's,
> racing or  testing.  I, too, don't have any option to turn off v-synch in
> D3D, but I don't like using third party tweak utils. Is there a reg hack
> that will turn v-synch off in D3D ?
> Cheers.

> P.S.. The demo's nice, but that steering wheel is MASSIVE ! Is that true
to
> scale ? It looks like something off Jed Clampetts truck !

1280x960x32.
I have the world detail on medium and draw ahead about 50%.
I am using the Nvidia 23.11 drivers, and have the vsynch option under "more
d3d" in the d3d properties tab.
If you don't have that, yes there are reg hacks, use a good utility like GTU
( GeForce Tweak Utlitity).

Don Burnette

Alan Bernard

N2002 Initial Impression

by Alan Bernard » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 02:49:57

I don't think that Direct 3D deals with vsync.  The option is nowhere to be
found.  The vertical sync setting only applies to OpenGL.  It's always been
that way.

And if anyone is still looking for the GeForce Tweak Utility, try here,

http://www.geforcetweak.com/

Don's link was busted.

Alanb


> You should be able to access the vertical synch in your d3d tab under "
more
> direct 3d" in your d3d settings tab. Change vertical synch mode to "always
> off".
> If you still do not have this option, you can download GeForce Tweak
Utility
> at http://www.guru3d.com/geforcetweakutility/
> I hear NVMax is pretty good also. They should give you the option to
disable
> vsynch in d3d. Check and make sure you definitely don't have it first
> though.
> My vsynch is off.

> Good luck,

> Don Burnette



> > Don,

> > I am still suffering from a very low framerate.

> > During a race at Atlanta I am getting 15 FPS. During a testing session I
> am
> > getting at best 30 FPS. I turned off Anistrophic Filtering (or whatever
> its
> > called) but it only helped a little bit. In the old N4 I easily got a
> solid
> > 50-60 in traffic with the same graphic settings.

> > Once again I am running a GF3, 512 RAMBUS, P4 1.5 gig and Windows XP
Pro.
> I
> > am running the game in 1024X768X32. turning off and on the FSAA seems to
> > make no difference in FPS.

> > I was wodering if there was a way to make sure VSYNCH was turned of in
> D3D.
> > I can turn it off for OpenGL apps but there is no setting for it under
the
> > D3D tab with my nVidia 21.83 drivers. What do you think?

> > US

Alan Bernard

N2002 Initial Impression

by Alan Bernard » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 03:14:19

Don,

I have no such option and have never known anyone to have a vsync option
under D3D, though vsync under D3D does show with the GeForce utility.  Maybe
you could give us a small screen shot of where you've changed this, either
here or in alt.binaries.simulators.autos.

Also, I find it hard to believe that you're getting the fps you say you're
getting, especially considering your resolution and color depth.  Maybe a
screen shot of that too and a complete deliniating of all your settings, so
that we can all try tweaking our setting to get maximum output.  I think I
have world detail set at its highest, so next time I'll try dropping that
some to see if get any improvements.

Alanb

John Pancoas

N2002 Initial Impression

by John Pancoas » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 03:22:38

  I'm getting 40-50's fps with a P4 1.4, GeForce MX 2, 32 meg card rig.
Back of the pack at either track, everything except refections maxed out.

  Make sure you choose the TnL/Hal video option; it doubled my fps.

-John


Don Burnett

N2002 Initial Impression

by Don Burnett » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 03:25:37


Alan, I am not sure why I seem to have this option where others don't,
I have posted a screen shot of my d3d settings tab in binaries.
I will work on getting a screenshot of my framerates and complete settings
as soon as I can.
Btw, world detail, at least in N4, made a big diff on framerate. Try it at
50%, you don't see a huge difference and the fps gain is good.

Don Burnette

Don Burnett

N2002 Initial Impression

by Don Burnett » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 03:27:24




> > > 1280x960x32.
> > > I have the world detail on medium and draw ahead about 50%.
> > > I am using the Nvidia 23.11 drivers, and have the vsynch option under
> > "more
> > > d3d" in the d3d properties tab.
> > > If you don't have that, yes there are reg hacks, use a good utility
like
> > GTU
> > > ( GeForce Tweak Utlitity).

> > > Don Burnette

> > Don,

> > I have no such option and have never known anyone to have a vsync option
> > under D3D, though vsync under D3D does show with the GeForce utility.
> Maybe
> > you could give us a small screen shot of where you've changed this,
either
> > here or in alt.binaries.simulators.autos.

> > Also, I find it hard to believe that you're getting the fps you say
you're
> > getting, especially considering your resolution and color depth.  Maybe
a
> > screen shot of that too and a complete deliniating of all your settings,
> so
> > that we can all try tweaking our setting to get maximum output.  I think
I
> > have world detail set at its highest, so next time I'll try dropping
that
> > some to see if get any improvements.

> > Alanb

> Alan, I am not sure why I seem to have this option where others don't,
> I have posted a screen shot of my d3d settings tab in binaries.
> I will work on getting a screenshot of my framerates and complete settings
> as soon as I can.
> Btw, world detail, at least in N4, made a big diff on framerate. Try it at
> 50%, you don't see a huge difference and the fps gain is good.

> Don Burnette

Ps: Also I set up my video driver in N2002 config to use tnl Hal.

Don Burnette

Don Burnett

N2002 Initial Impression

by Don Burnett » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 03:52:58


Alan, I have posted a screenshot of my graphics settings, race start, and
spread out in alt.binaries.simulators.autos.
Hope this helps in some way,

Don Burnette

John Pancoas

N2002 Initial Impression

by John Pancoas » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 04:33:14

  I've never used a GF tweak utility, just Nvidia drivers, and it's been in
my options every driver set.....including with the current one I'm using,
23.11.

-John


> On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:14:19 GMT, "Alan Bernardo"

> >I have no such option and have never known anyone to have a vsync option
> >under D3D, though vsync under D3D does show with the GeForce utility.
Maybe
> >you could give us a small screen shot of where you've changed this,
either
> >here or in alt.binaries.simulators.autos.

> It's not there for D3D by default, I think you have to hack the
> registry to get it or something, NVMax will allow you to turn it
> on/off for D3D and OGL.

redTe

N2002 Initial Impression

by redTe » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 04:33:55


Out of curiosity, which OS are you using ?

John Pancoas

N2002 Initial Impression

by John Pancoas » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 04:45:34

  :)  Noticed that's been pc changed too.   Next, it'll be something like
"Activators of rapid motion items, start your energy producing/propulsion
systems........please!"

-John


John Pancoas

N2002 Initial Impression

by John Pancoas » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 04:46:50

Win98.......if it ain't broke, don't fix it <G>

-John




> >   I've never used a GF tweak utility, just Nvidia drivers, and it's been
> in
> > my options every driver set.....including with the current one I'm
using,
> > 23.11.

> Out of curiosity, which OS are you using ?

redTe

N2002 Initial Impression

by redTe » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 04:58:00


True..I suppose.
I'm using XP. It may be why the v-synch option is not showing in mine, and
others, D3D settings.
I've just tried the latest Geforce Tweaker 3.1.1.6 and it shows v-synch as
disabled by default. I'm still not getting anywhere near 70fps in testing.
Mine seems to be stuck at 40-50fps in with settings at Max or even lower.
Me confused.

jason moy

N2002 Initial Impression

by jason moy » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 05:03:23


> First and most obvious: The pull to the left is gone pretty much completely,
> at least in the default fast setup for both tracks. Seems like the car is
> more stable also. I think a lot of folks are going to be very pleased with
> this. Myself, I had gotten used to the pull, but it didn't take any getting
> used to go back to not having a pull.

Were you using the easy setup?  The fast/qual setups for both tracks
pull to the left just as much as you would expect from N4.  The pull
isn't some magic effect built in to the game, it's the result of
running uneven camber on the front wheels.

Again, check the setup you're using.  With the fast setups I don't
notice a difference in the handling at all compared to N4.  Initially
my laptimes at both tracks were exactly the same as I would have
expected.  I did drop a few tenths/lap but I'll explain that below.

It seems impossible to flip the cars over now when getting t-boned.
While this is nice and everything, it seems like the same sort of code
they used to induce barrel rolls in N4.  It just feels forced when a
car doing 150mph hits you while you're sitting sideways and the wheels
don't even lift off of the ground.

I can't see much of a difference between the AI in the final patched
version of N4 and this demo.  I find running in N4 now I can push the
cars around pretty well.  It does seem that they made the AI a touch
more aggressive by default and made them a little bit better at
bumping and rubbing but I see the same retarded stuff the AI does in
N4.  I spun coming off of 2 at Richmond, ending up sideways down by
the wall about halfway down the backstraight.  Suddenly I get t-boned
by a car doing about 100mph.  Odd, I thought, wonder what the AI is
doing way out of the racing line.  Then POW POW POW POW 4-5 more cars
in quick succession.  Ok, this is weird.  POW POW POW POW 4-5 more.
Um.  I go look at the replay.  Apparently my spin caused the AI's
"dive into the infield to avoid the wreck" instincts to kick in and
they were all driving directly into the infield wall and then into the
pileup.  That had to be the funniest thing I've ever seen Papy AI do.
This wreck did a good job of demonstrating the new "glued to the
track" physics cheat that kicks in when cars are hit sideways.

I'm running 1280x960x32 and it looks exactly like N4 but with 512x512
textures.  The objects and lighting are exactly the same as N4 from
what I can tell, as well as the tracks themselves.  Don't get me wrong
tho, as long as you stay in TV1/TV2 camera modes it looks absolutely
beautiful.  Switching over to Spectator, my personal camera of choice,
reveals the GPL heritage plain as day.
The backfire effects are nice, if a bit overdone.

The engine/shifting sounds are really nice.  The best part tho, is the
separation of tire scrubbing/tire squealing into 2 separate sounds.
This is fantastic.  I was actually able to knock a few tenths off of
my laps at both tracks because I was picking up mistakes in my grip
management that I didn't notice in N4 because the "tires near limit"
sound was the same as the "tires being mutilated" sound.  Now there's
a nice low-pitched rumble as the tires reach the edge of the traction
circle, and the high-pitched squeal doesn't kick in until you're
pushing it too hard.  Really nice.

I did notice somthing buggy with the sound the first time I checked
out the brakelocking sound.  I came off of 2 at Atlanta and put the
brake pedal all the way down and I could hear the loop points in the
squeal sound, it was really odd (sounded like I was letting off the
brakes and hammering them again, over and over).  I tried it again and
it worked fine, so who knows.

These are the only substantial differences I'm seeing between N4 and
N2002.  I think the clips of DW that are in the demo are great.  He
discusses the history of each track briefly as a field of cars drives
by and a speed limit board with the pit speed is displayed in the
upper left hand corner.  Then using slow-motion and periodic pausing
he explains the line around the track, showing braking points, lifting
points, and throttle application points.  Well done imho.  Then
there's a full lap at speed, after which he does a brief summary and
gives some more tips, explaining how your line changes at Atlanta
after there's some wear in the tires and warning you to watch the
wheelspin coming out of 4 at Richmond and to be careful braking for 3
and 4 so that you don't flatspot a tire.  Really really well done I
thought.  On the other hand, I tried running for awhile with the
racing line displayed, and I found that it was more distracting than
anything.  This is probably just a personal preference, though, since
the line is the same as in F1 2001's training school.

I'm probably going to buy it for the driving school, replay theater
(haven't gotten to play with it yet, tho), and improved sound.  The AI
seems a tad bit better but still stupid enough that I wouldn't buy it
based on the improvements here.  I can't see a difference at all in
the physics modelling except for the side-impact cheat.  If enough
people pick it up when it comes out and there's a decent community
racing it online I'll pick it up for sure.  Otherwise I'm still iffy,
although I'll likely get it just to support Papyrus (it's not their
fault Sierra is trying to milk their licenses).

The demo just leaves me wanting to rub wheels with Emo in GPL 72, to
be honest.

Jason

Don Burnett

N2002 Initial Impression

by Don Burnett » Tue, 01 Jan 2002 05:08:12



No, using the default "fast" setups in the demo. Car goes straight as an
arrow for me down the straights if I let go of the wheel.

I notice a difference in the handling, the car is easier to drive,  not as
loose, seems to have little more grip. I like it.

Don Burnette

snip


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