rec.autos.simulators

GTR's netcode is certainly far from perfect.  GTL's seems much better,
so apparently they DID work *** it.  Regardless, I hardly see how
the quality of netcode can be attributed to Simbin's honesty (or
dishonesty) - or how it gives anyone the right to steal from them.
Feel free to set me straight...

CK

BK

...

    So let me get this straight - in all those posts you made you had Simbin
confused with ISI?

    You're off your trolley!

    They'll never live that down, especially considering they were outright
lying to the public about it months after even they knew it would never be
fixed.

    The only reason that would fail is that Simbin know that if all the
tracks available for GTR/GTL are also available for rFactor then that's the
end of GTR and GTL - you could finally drive all these tracks, even online,
with software that  .........<drumroll>......................actually WORKS!
:)

    I'm sure those of us on the rFactor side of the fence would have no
problem with a track swapping arrangement.

    Not a problem.

On a relatively minor yet still important point, GTL allows a max of 15
online, correct. May as well be using F1C.

Main point is that Simbin were quoted in magazines 6 months after release,
stating that there was a faultless multiplay experience to be had with GTR -
that was an outright lie. See previous issue of Autosimsport for proof -
it's all in there.

GTR is garbageware to anyone interested in online racing - an ideal world
would have such garbage products withdrawn from circulation immediately and
disband a company even thinking about releasing such rubbish.

   Again, I must throw an Americanism at the group.
"Buyer Beware."  We in the States had months of reviews by peers that
clearly indicated GTR was not the multiplayer heaven they claimed it to be.
(Heck right now our TPTCC online league is STRUGGLING with rFactor and
online issues.)  We, armed with that knowledge then make the choice of
whether or not to purchase such product.  I'd like to thank my Euro
brethern for alerting the rest of us.  If others were amoung the first to
throw money at Simbin, I can only say you have to determine what attracts
you to a title and if that title meets your needs.  If not, then do not
purchase.  I don't purchase a car based on the promise they will figure out
how to attach wheels at some future date.  

  GTR is not online nirvana, but it is certainly one of the premier offline
sims in the racing world.  The features they have brought to the table are
above and beyond the original code the title was based upon.  Can you name
more than one or two other titles that Simulate their target racing series
as well as GTR does?  
  (and just as a teaser,  I have chatted with aquaintences inside Simbin
who probably would verify that the company itself was split by failure of
the multiplayer to live up to the marketing claims.)
dave<who asks everyone not to steal>henrie

Simbin is the real problem as I see it.  ISI also is not the most
consumer-friendly company.  Most, however, are like ISI: I was comparing
company's consumer friendliness to LFS, which really lets everyone what is
going on.  Small group, yes. Less bureaucracy  Simbin and ISI are terrible
at public relations and in that way (among others) they are the same.

Alanb

I was convinced that you were just confusing Simbin with ISI in all your
  posts, but it seems you still can't really distinguish the two
entities.  Could you explain to me how ISI is not consumer-friendly and
how they are terrible at public relations?  Seriously, I really would
like to hear your explanation for it as It really does confuse me.

As far as Simbin, they have licenses for the tracks they produce which
they are legally obligated to protect.  I think Dave's post sums up that
whole issue very well.  However it seems you still expect ISI to help
you steal Simbin's work, correct?

Wow.. and I thought "I" sometimes had unreasonable expectations.  <G>

Now, if I were Simbin would "I" make a sim that is more mod friendly?
Yes, "I" would... but that is where rFactor shines because they aren't
using third party licenses on their product.  Basically, at some point
in the not too distant future, you are going to essentially have a
GTL-like clone in rFactor produced by the talent in this community.  To
steal from the Guinness commercials -  "Brilliant!"  Pending on the
timing of a US release, this could hurt US sales of GTL. Although I
already bought a copy from GoGamer.com and am enjoying it immensely even
though I have yet to race it online which for me personally will
demonstrate if the "truth is in the pudding".

If you want to talk about a community un-friendly group with terrible
public relations you could discuss FIRST / iRacing - at least there,
IMHO, you could offer up a reasonable debate.

--
Scott B. Husted
http://www.Husted.cc

Alan -

   This has already been said, but maybe with too many words.

Simbin and ISI sign contracts with various organizations in order to
use the tracks.  The contracts undoubtably specify the exact manner in
which the tracks can be used.  If Simbin and ISI in any way encouraged
or even tolerated their use elsewhere, they'd have legal problems.
They could be the consumer-friendliest people in the world, but they
_can't_ support this.  Not even if you already bought the tracks from
them.

   For those tracks,  I use GTR.  Which has weather and *** buildup.  
These are not available in rF.  WHY would I gut a track just to run it's
facimile in another sim?

dh

    The idea of offline racing is 100 times more painful than the idea of
going back to GPL! :)