rec.autos.simulators

Hopefully, anyway -- and hopefully it will be good! <G>

-- JB

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!

I think you might be confusing Motorsims (AMA Superbike) with RatBag (DTR)
in regards to the online spectator mode. It is definitely an option in AMA
Superbike but have seen no mention of I with DTR.........I hope I'm wrong :)

Coot

-- JB

I think I'm falling in love...

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Where do I pre-order?? <G>

-- JB

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I didn't say it was a complete multiplayer suite, did I? :)  Granted, it
should have included some support for finding each other.  But if I remember
right it was also intially only going to be a LAN based multiplayer but the
beta testers got that changed closer to the deadline.  Perhaps having a
GameSpy hook-in on shipdate would have been smart, but I think things worked
out ok. :)

Um, yes, when GPL was really designed, yes it was.  Nowadays, probably not.
But Tracey, if all you care about is "officially sponsored" online
tournaments then you are right GPL is not your cup of tea.  Nor will N3 be,
nor will DTR, or whatever.  User leagues have been run for years, and I dare
say they are a heck of a lot more successul than um, the "NROS" tournament
was, no?

And ranking systems?  Gee, I for one know whose damn fast in the GPL
world...and it ain't me! [ok, maybe I'm sorta fast..but heh].  Did I need
ranking systems to tell me? Nopers.  However, you probably do need ranking
systems if you are going to be running officially sanctioned, by some
organization body, tournament.  In that respect, I agree fully with you.

Perhaps they did with NROS -> N3.  I'm really surprised that all they are
goingto do is "matching" servers.  Not so sure that Motorsims is really
picking it up, but rather continuing their "heritage" of WarBirds [not the
same group, but many of them lead or helped design WarBirds] into the racing
world [wonder if they will do a Reno Air Races addon, that would be cool].
But keep in mind, Motorsims will be a WORK-IN-PROGRESS much like WarBirds
was before it.

(snippety snip)
That actually is the beauty of massive multiplayer sims like Warbirds/Air
warrior /etc and now hopefully the Motosims crew.
A work in progress is a work constantly evolving to meet player input. This
is not quite the same as the TEN situation where the evolution of the game
has stopped. Generally my connection to the WB servers is much better (but
not always) than any connection I get in any of the matching services plus I
play with a lot more people than I do in a matchmaking situation.  Its
likely that only a for profit service is going to have the money to have the
bandwidth to really make something on the scale of a NASCAR field or a big
motorcycle entry  work right. Yes it costs extra money but for the monthly
equivalent of dinner-and-a-movie I receive a lot of value in WB and I
anticipate the same in Motosims. I will definitly be checking out the
Motosims world particularly when the CanAm sim comes out.

David

Chris "Hollywood" Schletter wrote

That's kind of an elitist attitude IMHO Chris. To say that "if someone needs
incentives to race, they aren't serious about racing" is probably true. But
if someone would have told me a few  years ago that I would be "serious"
about a virtual computer simulation, I would have said they were crazy. Now
I have a $400 racing chair, *** steering wheels, and 2 computers dedicated
to it because I got "hooked".

Different people get hooked for different reasons. For some. it's the
realism of the physics engine, for others it's the immersion of the graphics
and sound, others just like the competition, some would race just because it
is their favorite motor sport, be it F1, CART, or NASCAR. But then there are
millions of other people out there not being reached because none of those
things are quite enough for them. Those people need incentives, or bait, if
you plan on hooking any more fish.

If Sierra is happy just selling 40,000 units to the "serious" racers, then
their design is working without a flaw. If they plan on growing the pond in
which they are currently the biggest fish, then they need ways to get more
water. Otherwise, a company like Motorsims or Ratbag is going to come along
and open the dam, and us "serious racers" are going to lose our favorite sim
creator.

Btw, there is no CanAm sim.  SCCA's CanAM went south and now Motorsims has
nothing except perhaps they may see about offering a GT racing that Bill
France is putting together.

Oh, and yours isn't?  You always come across sounding like that if it ain't
on NROS like servers it isn't sim racing and it isn't worth a hill of beans.

Hey, great.  I'm glad that you are enjoying your hobby.  I'm happy that you
found something you want in an NROS like system.  However, NROS type system
has its detractions just as it has its attractions.  But its also not the
end all/be all of sim racing.  Sim racing is just as viable on smaller
dedicated servers and/or listen servers run by sim racing nuts.  It may not
be "professional" quality or useable for a "professional" racing
organization for sanctioned racing, but its still a viable and fun form of
racing online.

Yes, of course.

And my question to you is, why do you need to reach them at all?  If they
aren't interested in the variety of different offerings already available,
why bother?

I think Sierra may have been happy about selling 40,000 units of a game with
the historical background of Grand Prix racing of 1967.  As been said over
and over and over again, its not the freaking physics of the game that
caused it not to sell well...its being able to identify with those cars.
Not many folks today would browse the shelves and say hey, I recognize that
car from last week's big race.  Or hey, didn't Jeff Gordon drive that car?
Or Michael Andretti.  Or F1 is cool.  Muscle cars are cool.  Not many
implusive buys.   Sure, some where scared off by the physics once the
reviews starting coming out.  But then again, not a lot of the "***"
public even read *** magazines or go to websites.

But I agree, that they have to find otherways of getting more water.  I
personally don't think that remaking another version of N1/N2/N99 is the way
to go, but its the way they went.

Just as an NROS like system is not the end all be all of sim racing, Papyrus
is not the end all be all of sim racing game development.  I'd like to see
Motorsims, I'd like to see Ratbag, heck I'd like to see Crammond all
succeed.  Why?  Because they will expand and make the a variety of different
motorsims and from competition comes better games.

If DTR models the car behaviour well then I will definitely buy it. I run
GPL exclusively right now
but I had a great deal of fun running the ovals (short and long) on TEN. I
welcome the experience
that I can gain driving different types of cars and tracks. As Jacques
Villeneuve demonstrated when
he overtook Shumacher at Estoril in '96, oval experience can come in handy
in road racing. Hopefully
I'll learn some lessons that I can transfer between different modes of
racing.

There is nothing "elitist" about my attitude Chris. I just want to PAY
for a service so I have someone to complain to when it doesn't work,
and so I have a "voice" in recommending improvements. I'd feel pretty
stupid yelling at Allison Hine if I were booted from a VROC race. <G>

Sims aren't selling well lately, not just GPL. If our "hobby" doesn't
start catching on it's going to go away. We will be bowlers without
bowling alleys.

I completely agree with you, unfortunately that isn't the conclustion
that Sierra made. If it were, I would be putting you another lap down
in their latest Indy car offering right now. <G>

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