rec.autos.simulators

by **an..** » Sat, 27 Apr 1996 04:00:00

That wasn't the point, what I'm saying is the process of the two is to
acheive the same end result correct?.

And I believe NASCAR has excelled past using measurment of speed
from two white lines and a stopwatch to yes, a radar gun.

What this boils down to is Yeah maybe your local cop as was mentioned
in the original post would cut you some slack. But thats mixing
apples with oranges. A cop cutting someone on the street a break and
Pit speed in NASCAR or any other Sanctioning body are two different
things right? NASCAR sets a particular speed for pit road PERIOD!
The Simulator should therefor reflect the same rules as best it can
be. No doubt Nascar by Papyrus defualts the tracks to 55mph. But that
is far better than having a Sim. without accuracy. Who's knows maybe
we'll get to see a few added changes in the next version.

Regards,
Andy A

by **Banfi Fol** » Sat, 27 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Rick? Can you tell us if the current version of NASCAR Racing (the one that
is in use for Hawaii) was modified to eliminate this (very small) problem?

Thanks

Folco

by **Mike Manthe** » Sat, 27 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> No cop would ever write a ticket for going 1 mph over the speed limit, even
> for a radar ticket. It's not reasonable to expect a speedometer to be that
> accurate.
> <lines snipped>
> Dave

True enough, Dave, (except for here, in Colorado). But as you and I both know, all it
would take is a couple of quick test to see just exactly what speed is too much, and
then we would always push it. So what's the use? If you won't get a black flag
until 58 mph, then you will be driving "on the edge" at 57 anyway. Then we would call
57 mph our "new" speed limit. ???? Am I missing something? (Use the force, Luke.
You will see this to be true... :-))

Would you then complain that you always get a black flag at 58 MPH??? HA!

Look at the options! Here's a scary thought: Would you rather have them randomly
giving black flags at anything between 55 and 70? Think of the complaints!! "Gee, I
was always able to go 61 in the pits, but today, I was in first place and got flagged
at 59!" That would make it more "realistic", but does anyone really want the guy
waving the black flag to have an ATTITUED PROBLEM? This is a "computer" simulation, we
have the capability of being *accurate* AND FAIR.

Mike's Handy Tip #3: Use a piece of black electrical tape & cover up your speed
indicator for a more realistic sim.

Mike's Handy Thought #412: -after looking at some alternatives, we sometimes realize
that what we have is really not that bad.

Mike -"still one lap down"

by **David Spar** » Sun, 28 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>True enough, Dave, (except for here, in Colorado). But as you and I both
>know, all it
>would take is a couple of quick test to see just exactly what speed is too
>much, and
>then we would always push it. So what's the use? If you won't get a
>black flag
>until 58 mph, then you will be driving "on the edge" at 57 anyway. Then we
>would call
>57 mph our "new" speed limit. ???? Am I missing something? (Use the
>force, Luke.
>You will see this to be true... :-))

The AI drivers always drive right at 55, they never get black-flagged. If I
try to keep that same pace, at least 1 time in 5, I will go 56 for a split
second and get a black flag. So I end up losing a couple more spots. I
suppose you could argue that this is just one more way to even the odds for
the AI drivers. However, at a track like N. Wilkesboro, one or two spots
hurts a lot. Also, as someone has pointed out, Indy cars have rev limiters
that keep the car under the speed limit (if you remember to push the
button). But this doesn't always work in ICR2, I've been black-flagged more
than once. In multi-player, I don't care, because we all have to play by
the same rules.

It's been an interesting discussion, but in the scheme of things, I'd much
rather see other things changed. Like the yellow flag problems in ICR2,
double file restarts in NASCAR, cars exiting the pit have to wait for the
end of the caution line, better AI, seeing the tach jump and hearing the
engine race when the wheels start slipping, being able to get out of the
pits before repairs are complete in NASCAR to avoid being lapped, spotters,
I could go on...

Dave

by **Karl Rau** » Sun, 28 Apr 1996 04:00:00

And then we'd all be doing 65 and complaining that we're still getting
black flagged. It's not that hard to keep under the limit. Just keep
it in first all the time and you'll get used to it.

by **RickGent** » Sun, 28 Apr 1996 04:00:00

problem?

As far as I know, no, if you go over 55, you get black flagged, period.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Sierra On-Line, Inc.

by **Craig Hopki** » Mon, 29 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>>Well, them using a stopwatch and timing cars would be the same thing
>>as using a radar gun. Beings Winston Cup cars don't have speedometers
>>the go by RPM to guage their speed on pit road. Go to any race and a
>>some point <usually the last "Happy Hour"> the pace car will lead the

>Sorry, a radar gun, for all practical purposes gives you instantaneous
>speed. It is NOT the average speed in the pits.

>Dave

But it is the average speed for that instant!

:-)))

by **Gary Godso** » Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> > >Can't this be added in the patch for IRC2? I have been black flagged for
> > >hitting 81 mph for a fraction of a second. Something like a governor
> > >button would really help.

> > In the Long Beach broadcast on ABC, Danny Sullivan mentioned that the
> > officials don't penalize a driver unless he's going at least 5 mph over pit
> > speed. Also, I'm pretty sure that it's based on average speed rather than
> > instantaneous speed. It would be nice if Papyrus allowed us just a little
> > more leeway on the pit speed.

> ===========================================
> It's all in your perspective....

> In the last "real" Long Beach race, they lowered the pit speed limit, (I
> forgot what it was lowered to...) so the speed limit is not a
> constant..

> So, why not just call the pit speed limit... say.... 75 MPH?
> That will give you the 5 MPH "buffer" you're looking for!

> It's also not based on average speed, as was suggested. A speed limit
> in the pits is a speed limit. ..just as a highway speed limit is a
> limit. You couldn't get out of a speeding ticket by explaining that your
> average speed was actually only 65 MPH.... :-( I wish!

> To ask that Papyrus write a patch to fix something that's not broke.....
> well, it's a little much to ask. It's a great simulator. Use it for
> what it does, find a work-around for what doesn't, and above all, play!

> ** To all - I'm not trying to pick on those I just replied to :-) **
> Just an observation, but it seems too many people buy a program before
> they know if it will suit their needs, then claim "foul" when they find
> something they don't like. This applies to much more than just games.
> Let the same caution you use buying a used car apply to software. If
> it's not going to work for you, don't buy it.

> Lighten up, my fellow gamers. This is supposed to be fun!

> Have fun
> Be flexible
> Mike

Get this. I'm in the lead at Phoneix, right? I go for my final stop,
right? And then--WHAM! Black Flag. I know how it goes!! I think I
might have found a way to beat the flag thing. Call me an
unnaturaliist, but I still use a joystick. I pull back on the stick
(which is my reverse) and it prevents me from going over the limit.
Like the present day govenors so to speak. I have only tried it a
couple of times, so don't hold me to it!! It is worth a shot!

by **Eldred Picke** » Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>Mike's Handy Tip #3: Use a piece of black electrical tape & cover up your speed
>indicator for a more realistic sim.
>Mike's Handy Thought #412: -after looking at some alternatives, we sometimes realize
>that what we have is really not that bad.
>Mike -"still one lap down"

Mike, you've got too much time to THINK<g>

...and I'm TWO laps down...

Eldred Pickett

I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?

by **David Spar** » Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>>Sorry, a radar gun, for all practical purposes gives you instantaneous
>>speed. It is NOT the average speed in the pits.

>>Dave

>But it is the average speed for that instant!

>:-)))

Arghh! I want my Richmond setup back! <g>

Dave

by **Mike Manthe** » Wed, 01 May 1996 04:00:00

> Mike, you've got too much time to THINK<g>

> ...and I'm TWO laps down...

> Eldred Pickett

Naw, once the price of Hawaii comes down, I'll be racing. Right now,
I'm dreaming....

Mike -one lap down, in the pits, black flagged for speeding. :-)

rec.autos.simulators

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter

Speeding in the pits in IRC2 - Message for Rick Genter