rec.autos.simulators

   Pentium II?  CPR requires a P60, recommends a P166 (according to
the MS CPR web page).  How do you get Pentium II out of that?  If that
(minimum/recommended machine) is what the publisher says will work, we
deserve the right to P&M if it doesn't.

   OK, I just installed the new Papyrus CART Racing Win95 (re-)
release.  

   With CPR I get high ***s (18-19) rounding T2 at low speed
(640x480, good quality, hard. accel. w/smoothing, no other cars, most
graphic options off, dashboard, clipping at 15, sound on, etc) with my
P133/V1000.

   With Papyrus I get 25 with most graphics off (other settings as
close to above as possible).  With everything turned on, I get 21.

   Yes, CPR's 16-bit color looks better than Papyrus' 8-bit.  (BTW, I
was testing in 16-bit color mode, so maybe Papy might have had a few
more FPS in it if I dropped my video to 8-bit, but I don't care enough
to check. ;)

   OTOH, considering the Papyrus-Win95 version is 1 1/2 years old and
was done without having the advantages of Microsoft to draw upon (if
any one should know how to program for D3D...), "it's not bad for
DirectX".  Which brings us back where we started...  :)

   And don't get me started on the DirectX install problem which I
think was behind my control problems...  ;)

   For me, I don't really care if its DirectX or a hardware-specific
port.  I'm looking for a good performing CART sim.  An extremely small
category with few product choices (2 last time I checked).  When I
compare them, I don't say "oh, its not a direct port, so I should
accept inferior performance".*  I compare the products based on their
performance and, right now, CPR looks to have a FPS problem on my
hardware, a problem serious enough to threaten gameplay (consider that
all of these numbers I've quoted have been with *no* opponents, and
CPR seems to take a bigger hit from additional cars than ICR2).  The
solution to that may be to keep playing ICR-3D, upgrading my PC (I had
thought about a P133 -> P200MMX swap around the beginning of the
year), or improving CPR.  Improving CPR seems like the best option for
all of us, assuming it can be done.  :)

* - BTW, I've had virtually no use for Papyrus' Win95 ICR2/CART port,
even though it's "not bad for DirectX".  If I was an artist, the
PaintKit might be worthwhile.  The DOS Rendition performance is just
so much better.  CPR is a better challenger (many more features), but
it still has to compete with and outperform ICR-3D (or at least reach
a minimal level of performance that makes that feature set
worthwhile).

   4-5 FPS loss is about right for me.  The scheme of 'draw the track
first, then the***pit' seems odd to this *** simmer (since we
*never* drive outside of the***pit, right?).  On Papyrus sims, the
mostly-static***pit is a frame rate *bonus*, since only 1/3 - 1/2 of
the screen must be updated.  CPR's choice to draw the***pit over the
track costs a fair chunk of FPS.  (Although I'm not sure if CPR would
gain as much, since the***pit isn't as static as the Papyrus sims --
with the vibration, head-panning, etc.)

   Now you're talking!  We've seen the difference DMA can make in the
DOS versions, so this is very encouraging.

   I believe that the new 2100's and 2200's are "bugged" while the old
1000's are just "experiencing slowdowns", like most "ancient"
hardware.  ;)

   Amen!

Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking...  Did he complain
to five or six postmasters last month?  Now, you must ask yourself one
question: "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, do you, punk?

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997 15:48:39 -0800, "John Browne"

I've looked at the frame rates that my PPro200 with 3dfx and 64MB gets
with all details on,  "Best" drawing setting, and draw-ahead at 31.
The fps is around 17 sitting idle with no other cars in view.  This
drops down to around 15 when driving and one car is visible in front.
I don't know what will happen when 10 or more other cars will be
visible.  

Sure I can get 30+ fps by reducing the draw-ahead and using the
"Better" setting or removing track-side objects and other detail, but
this results in an  inferior immersion and is less than what I would
expect on this hardware.  

Also, as has been mentioned several times by others, the lack of
anti-aliazing still leaves a poor image that makes it difficult to
focus on the distant track.

While it is likely that within a year, the level of hardware (cpu and
3d accelerators) will have risen to where it will run at 30+ fps with
all detail on,  it is also probably true that many people will simply
not purchase this title (or be satisfied with the graphic performance)
until a year or so.

Dave.

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Here's a trick.

 In Win95, got to your graphics setup and turn the number of colors in
the pallette down to 256. For example if you're currently running 32-bit
color and then run CPR, it will suck big time. Drop it down to 256, then
run the game ( turn the colors down first ). I have a P200, with a
crappy 3d accelerator, diamond stealth 3d2000, an old S3Virge chip, and
I get great frame rates.

Just a suggestion ]