rec.autos.simulators

                                   -- L. James

-----------------------
L. D. James

www.apollo3.com/~ljames

http://www.3d-fahrschule.de/

A demo is available

As I answered to a similar post some time ago:

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remove the "no_me_j." and "sons.of." parts before replying

"What do you mean Daddy, drive on the right side of the road?  I thought it
was the LEFT side?"

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

The US apparently have a frenchman to blame for them driving on the wrong
side too.

We resisted Napoloeon and his mates with their crazy right hand side
driving...

Cheers
Tony

You use the word "ethical" in the subject line.  Does that mean that games
like Vice City do not fall under your realm of asking?  :)

But still, I think trying to teach someone how to drive (if that's what
you're doing) through a computer program might be dangerous.  Not sure,
though, since I remember, way back in the 70s, when I went to high school
and took Drivers Ed-- I remember using some kind of simulator.  It wasn't a
computer; it was some big thing with a real steering wheel, and things were
pretty real.

I still think it would be dangerous.  :)

Alanb

I thought the original poster might have confused "ethical" and
"educational", for one can fly like a madman in FS2004, should one so desire
(no penalty other than failing the lesson/scenario at worst).

And you would think wrong. While a different physical experience altogether,
simulation teaches familiarity with controls, procedures and situations.
That's why the world's airforces and airlines invest in simulator time for
their pilots and, increasingly (in Europe, don't know about the US/rest of
the world) so are road transportation operators (trucks/coaches) for their
drivers.

Eventhough, predictably from my *** experiences (Europeans were not allowed
to train for a drivers license before we turned 18 when I "learned" to
drive), I took to handling a car like a duck to water, I was totally
unprepared to deal with traffic from a car perspective. If I could have
practised that on a sim that would have cut the amount of _paid_ lessons I
took in half!

I have become a safer driver through sim experience. Of all "games", the
original Need 4 Speed made me realise it's really, really, *REALLY* stupid
to drive faster than the general pace of traffic allows.

Jan.
=---

And you think wrong, when interpreting what I said.  I was speaking mainly
of automobiles.  The dangers, as I see it, has absolutley nothing to do with
"familiarity with controls" and whatnot.  It would seem that in these
driving simulations, perspective could not be achieved as it can be in a
real driving experience.  And it would seem, further, that perspective is
the biggest thing a new driver has to deal with.  You have to know distance,
how far you are away from things, such as another car, especially one to
your right or left.  And on turns, perspective is key, so that you don't run
up on a curb and ram a mail box or pedestrian.  Maybe you can get this kind
of experience from a high-tech simulator, I don't know.  But since you seem
to be the expert, with undoubted confidence and bravado, you might know
about these things more than I would.

You must be joking.  It took Need for Speed to realize this?  That's very
odd; and completely unbelievable.

Alanb

If I remember well the story about right side driving and left side driving
goes much farther back than Napoleon, the romans were mostly right handed
people and were carrying swords on their right side while riding their
horses and thus on the roman roads the use was to travel on the RIGHT side
of the road just because it was easier to climb on your horse with the leg
WITHOUT the sword (LEFT), so since you had to be on the right side on the
road to climb on your horse you just kept on being on the right side of the
road.

That's the reson for the entire world (of the time) to drive/walk/ride on
the RIGHT side of the road, now the reason for the UK to drive on the left
side MIGHT have something to do with trains, I don't know the specifics but
i know the english invented the trains and in all of europe the trains are
"driving" on the left, so I guess it's probably coming from the UK.

Also since people are usually more skillful with their right hand I think
it's a good idea to shift with your right hand, so the english system is
not good for me because of this, and all the racing cars, even built in
britain have a right hand shifter...weird.

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I thought swords were generally carried on the left hip. For a right
hander (the vast majority), pulling out a long sword from a scabbard
on the right would be very awkward.

There is an interesting description of the worldwide situation at:
http://www.i18nguy.com/driver-side.html
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     As far as I can see, Testdrive would be a pretty good program except
it's always race against the clock otherwise you only have seconds to play.
I don't see an option to participate in taking your time and trying to stay
within your side of the road and follow the lane.  The only way you can
participate in that game is to initially drive like a maniac, knock over
trees, cars, and chase pedestrians off the sidewalk.

     FS2004 gives a lot of valuable experience.  It shows a lot of
perspective.  It even makes flying around sceneries and sites very
interesting.  I was hoping to find an automobile game/simulator that could
give some of the same type of experience.  Maybe it would allow the user to
drive around the city, experience stopping at traffic lights, parking, and
maybe entering and exiting the freeway.

     Maybe Microsoft will take on this challenge and start to add cities and
garages similar to what they have done with flight simulator.

     Again, "ethical" (driving ethics: not having to drive like a fool to
participate.  "Like FS2004", having realistic sites and terrain to navigate.

     As a tutor of young children, I use Flight Simulator to teach math
reading, planning and many other things, while allowing my students to have
fun.  I can say decent about 500 feet, and they learn subtract 500 from 2000
(for example).

     I'll have to look around and see what is about Vice City.

     Thanks for all the input.

                     -- L. James

-----------------------
L. D. James

www.apollo3.com/~ljames

If it is for children, any of the Microsoft Midtown Madness games
would be a much better idea, and has a much more realistic traffic
model. GTA:VC, while being an awesome game, it has a Mature rating for
good reason.
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