rec.autos.simulators

Zonker heeft geschreven in bericht

whatever.

Nobody mentioned worshipping or treating them like something they're not. It
may just be a good source of information. That is something that the
companies can use to promote their quality and can be of benefit to us all.

See above.

So let's have them around.

Those are the folks that may offer some input or may extract good info
themselves from discussions on existing, upcoming or to be planned products.
Also they may become involved in the discussion concerning editors etc. like
in the case op GP2 where there is a lot of useful stuff around that never
has been approved or supported by MPS. If they would support those products
and the developers, it would be good even for their own product's
life-cycle.

I'm not sure about that. Once they get more comfortable it may be that they
will mention developments, like the TAR developer who posted in here
yesterday.

I said before:

That's still valid, and offers an opportunity for everybody to decide what
their opinion on the best way forward is.

Harald.

Here is a perfect example of two posts that could be of help to the sim developers. I disagree to some extent with what Richard says about the limit in CPR. *IF* you use the right setup, the car can be pushed quite successfully, with a great feel, to and beyond the limit. But. The  setup is critical and hard to come by at first. Together, by having different experiences we are saying, that CPR will immediately discourage the seasoned sim racer, eventually discourage the not so seasoned sim racer and not have any ill effect at all on the sim junkie with too much time on his hands and a mild form of insanity. Very important testing results. It's possible that shifting the setup ranges could have fixed it. Too bad it's after the release of the game.

I think the early release of GPL was a slick move. You can't buy feedback like r.a.s.. As Richard says, "If they had more sim racing experience
(or real hotlappers on the beta test team)".  Well we're free here.

I'm more than happy to buy your product if I get something out of it. So if you let me dink with it, then let me know you're listening while I trash it, that's probably enough to convince me to buy it. You really don't need to answer posts for me. Just stick your head up once in a while.

Let me get a clean shot. :-)

--

mark
"A lot of people think racing is about going fast. But it's not. It's about going just slow enough to stay on the track."

F1RS - http://www.nmia.com/~chaser/car/results.htm
Remove us here and there to mail me.

    >Okay <deep breath>, here goes:

    Welcome Todd! We're a pretty demanding lot and sometimes get a bit carried
    away but most of us are actually pretty reasonable under the surface ;-)
    Along with Wolfgang's advice, I would also caution to just ignore any
    flames that don't contain any substance, no way can you win if you respond
    to them :(

    >I also realize that we are currently nobodies in this market and that, as
    >far as most of you know, we
    >could be just a flash-in-the-pan.  All I can say is that proof will be in
    >the pudding.

    The main concern here would be that you might miss something that a more
    seasoned racing sim developer would have caught. An obvious example for me
    is TRI with CPR - they pronounced to the world how wonderful their physics
    were only for it to fall flat on the face when the cars were pushed to the
    limit. A really great feel to the physics though - provided you didn't
    really push it trying for hotlaps. If they had more sim racing experience
    (or real hotlappers on the beta test team) then this may have been picked
    up and corrected prior to the release. So beware of blind spots ;-)

    btw: if you need any beta testers, you could do far worse than contact some
    of the guys here!

    Cheers,
    Richard

    --
    We all bump into each other every day of our lives, and we render our opinions
    whether we know anything or not, and if anybody catches us out we lie...

Thanks to Wolfgang and everyone else for the positive feedback and
support.  I'm still working on approval to get involved on an official
basis, so these are still Todd Heckel's personal opinions.  I agree
that feedback from real users early in the process is invaluable.  At
E3 we learned a lot about the general public's perceptions (let's face
it, they buy a lot of games) and just a little about the typical sim
racer's (quite positive, I might add).  Anyway, we're talking to the
producer at GT tomorrow, we'll see where it goes from there.

Todd

Todd,

Best of luck to you.

I, for one, am looking forward to the release of TA Racing almost as much as
GPL. I can't wait to get to the Ring in GPL, but I also cannot wait to finally
get to race at Riverside! I worked as a flag marshall for many years at the
track but never got to drive it in anger. It was a very sad day in my life when
it closed for good, but now we can have a little of it back.

Hope the boss lets you stay on with us!

don

"To race is to live, everything else is just waiting." - Rudi Caricciola

% Okay <deep breath>, here goes:

<mucho snip>

I am going to read between the lines and assume that "marketing" thinks
we want a "destruction derby" simulation.  Therefore they hype the
"crash physics" and all of the mags running previews buys this lot and
that's what we hear and read.

However, buried deep in the programming vaults the real physics is
"racing" not "crashing".  Maybe marketing should be following r.a.s. as
well?!

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

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