rec.autos.simulators

David G Fisher

I did notice that it is HELL getting logged in to Sierra right now.  Maybe
the server couldn't get in and quit trying ?

-Larry

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

I know *I* couldn't do it.  Even at Michigan, my laptimes might differ by as
much as a second and a half between the lines.

You said "The car wanted to be on the throttle very early into
the turn.....I didn't figure out how to do this until I slowed my
straight-line entry down."

What does that mean?  How do you know WHAT the car wanted?  My car doesn't say
a thing to me.  It's giving me the silent treatment. :-)

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+8.09
N2002 Rank:+22.329

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-Larry

You know, maybe we are just now getting to the bottom of what is a
misunderstanding between us......about this "veterans only" racing and
stuff.

Maybe you are now just starting to get a hint of what I mean by a veteran
sim driver.  Just how "good" are they.....and what is my definition of
"good" compared to yours.....or some others that have joined this discussion
over the last week or so.

The misunderstanding I think is mostly on my end.  I have "assumed" you guys
who are regulars on r.a.s. (but whose names I don't equate with being a
veteran sim driver) know what it takes to perform at world-class levels in
sim racing.  I have maybe taken too much for granted......that's my fault.
I assumed it was common knowledge among just about everyone in the sim
community that "practice time" to learn a new track (from scratch) is from
30 to 60 hours....depending on how thorough and how skilled you are as a
race driver.  I know George Sandman puts in enormous amounts of seat time
just to get ready for a league race at a track he has no experience at.  Of
course, in NASCAR sim racing....once you learn a track....you can "freshen"
yourself for subsequent races with only a fraction of that time.  And, every
race you run in adds to your knowledge base for that track.....so your
"freshening" time is reduced commensurately.

EldredP write: "What does that mean?  How do you know WHAT the car wanted?
My car doesn't say
 a thing to me.  It's giving me the silent treatment. :-)"

EldredP, the race car talks to you.  You are just not listening closely
enough.  It tells you what it wants from you as driver input....and it tells
you what it doesn't like.  It screams at you every second you are in the
car......but the "words" are not a language you understand....until you've
been racing for a fairly long period of time.   And, in my opinion....some
drivers are just naturally better at listening to their race cars than
others.  I am average or below average at it.....I just work at it harder to
make up for that fact.

The ability to equivocate multiple line lap times is pretty much a basic
skill.....all pro drivers have it and its a given that you can do this.  You
guys really don't think the WC drivers are out there on the track
"practicing" the racing line doing you?  .....lol....  I hope not.  Now, in
road racing....your practice sessions have completely different goals.  But
there is still a fair amount of time learning what the car's performance is
....out of the racing line (fast line).

Oh well, I'm kind of rambling on here.....sorry.

Tom

"Practice time"....isn't the same for all drivers.  By definition, I mean.
What I mean is, what somebody like a Dale Earnhardt would have to practice
at Talladega, to get ready for a WC race couldn't possibly be compared to
what a rookie sim driver would have to practice for his first online league
race at Talladega.  I think that's kind of obvious.....so much so, that it
might seem that I'm making a joke of this.....but I'm not.

Every racing coach....and every racing school I've ever been too......will
tell you that you should never break the following cardinal rule about
practice laps:  "Never....never, never......roll out onto the track for a
practice session without having a specific goal, or set of goals, that you
are trying to achieve with those preciously few practice laps you get in
real-world racing!"  We sim drivers have it easy......we have such easy
access to practice laps, we can afford to waste them with mindless lapping.
A pro real-world race car driver would never do that......he/she would never
even think of doing that!

So...you ask the question, "How much practice does it take?"  My answer is,
"That depends on what your goals are."  If you don't have any goals.....you
can probably practice that in about two or three laps! .......lol......

If your goal is to be prepared for a 50% league racing in N2K2 (part of a
season/league championship that you care about).....at a track you've no
prior experience racing at......and you are competing against 42 "George
Sandmans" or "Wolfgangs"......and you want to shoot for a top-10
finish.....then you are looking at 40 to 60 hours.....just to have a slight
chance of attaining your goal of a "top-10" finish.  At least, that's what
my assessment of practice that I would need to do......for this same goal
package.  I'd be near 40 hours if it was a "fixed setup race" .....and at 60
+ hours if it was an open setup race (again...at a track I'd never "learned"
previously).  And, I've been weekly sim racing for 5 + years......and
real-world racing for almost 20 years now (although only 8 years of that was
in full-season championship series racing).  Heck, I'd allocate 4 hours or
so just for "pitting sequence" practice alone.

So...."How much time does it take to practice?"  Sorry....I can't answer
that question.  Well, what I mean is I can answer it for me, but I can't
answer it for you.

Regards,

Tom

Yes, I want to see a replay. We can talk all day but eventually there needs
to be proof that these things can be done. With such a huge and old online
NASCAR community it should be easy to find.

They were running like I described every time I looked.

I don't know what times you were running there with the fast setup at 70 and
no wind in testing. I can do a 39.9, and can string a bunch of 40.2's
together. I'm absolutely slower if a take a mid or high line through the
corner. If you don't hit the apex up against the apron you will lose a chunk
of time. If you leave room for two other cars.....forget it. What kind of
times were you doing?

Also, testing by yourself is not nearly the same as running in traffic. As I
said, the real guys were running side by side through the turns three deep
as if they were nailed to a board and being rotated through the turn. They
were just a few feet apart and the guys on the outside were just as fast as
the ones on the inside. In the sim, you will push badly if you try this at
Michigan. No way you will see two let alone three guys replicate what I saw
on TV.

Let's just assume I stink and don't have the ability to do what I saw the
real drivers do. There are guys who have been racing the Papy NASCAR sims
for years. They have been racing in leagues agaisnt the same drivers for
years. They've put in God knows how many hours on these tracks and racing
each other. There are so many N2002 leagues around. It should take two
seconds to point me to a replay  that looks just like what I saw Sunday if
the sim has got it right. It's that simple really.

I'm not really ripping the sim either. It's about as good as it gets. I'm
just saying that something really leaps out at me when I watch the real
races and then compare it to N2002, especially at certain types of tracks.

David G Fisher

Well, *nobody* I know has that kind of time to practice in a week for a league
race... :-(

 I know George Sandman puts in enormous amounts of seat time

Even if I practiced an hour per day, it would take a month to put in that time
for ONE track.  Given that, I don't see people being able to run that much
practice with races taking place every week.
I guess I'll never get there... :-(

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+8.09
N2002 Rank:+22.329

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So for racing, I'm trying to get faster, as a performance goal.  That might be
runing 39's at Michigan for a full fuel run, or it might be running the entire
race without a spin.  My final finishing position is not within my control.  I
might be racing guys who can't run 3 laps without finding a wall, or I might be
running with drivers from another planet.  A top-10 or top-5 would be NICE, but
it's not guaranteed, even if I run 5,000 laps.
I've had races where I ran *flawlessly*.  No spins, no offs, no incidents.
Most consistent, etc.  But, I still finished 2(or more) laps down.  I'm not
happy with that, although some might be.
My speed needs to improve.  I *can* run an entire race without a spin.  I can
do that at the majority of tracks in a couple different sims.  But the speeds I
need to run to ensure that are much lower than everyone else's to meet the same
goal.

I've had the same length of time doing sim-racing as you have, maybe longer.
I've been running sims since indy500, and leagues since Indycar Racing(1994?)
I don't have any real racing experience, besides a Skip Barber course.
Did I explain it well enough?  I'm not always good at getting my point
across... :-(

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+8.09
N2002 Rank:+22.329

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I'll beg to differ about just how much practice time some people put in...

When I started in N1, I ran dega only.  Yep, classic degahead :) $900 phone bills and one very exciting day ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TALLADEGA FASTLAP RECORDS

Tim White World Record Holder @ 197.186 mph

Validated: Tue Oct 15 10:03:21 1996 Eastern Daylight Time

Rank IVGA#        Name                  Home          League   Lap Time   Speed   Sec.Back  Config*
---- ----- -------------------- -------------------- --------- --------  -------  --------  -------
  1  2580   Tim White            Philadelphia PA      NONE     0:49.328   197.186     0.000   CH N/A
  2  2397   Josh Carr            Pigeon Forge, TN     IVGA     0:49.342   197.130     0.014   -- -/-
  3  0001   Joe Farr             Hoffman Estates, Il  INL      0:49.345   197.118     0.017   -- -/-
  4  3129   Charlie Mone         Mechanicville, NY    IVGA     0:49.408   196.867     0.080   -- -/-
  5  0028   Thomas A Agopsowicz  Edmonton AB Canada   IVGA     0:49.435   196.759     0.107   -- -/-
  6  2052   Bob Peters           Cincinnati, Oh       IVGA     0:49.484   196.565     0.156   -- -/-
  7  3051   Tim Yuhasz           Edmonton AB Canada   IVGA     0:49.492   196.533     0.164   -- -/-
  8  2008   Vinnie Palmese       Pocono Pines PA      NRL      0:49.495   196.521     0.167   -- -/-
  9  2435   Travis Robeson       Pigeon Forge, TN     IVGA     0:49.568   196.232     0.240   -- -/-
 10  2359   Alec A. Flory        Columbus, Ohio       CSNC96   0:49.594   196.129     0.266   -- -/-
 11  2318   Shawn Kosloff        Alexandria, VA       NRL      0:49.640   195.947     0.312   -- -/-
 12  0003   Jim Janssen          Sunnyvale, CA        INL      0:49.645   195.927     0.317   -- -/-
 13  4304   Roberto Tamaso       Sao Paulo,Brasil     NONE     0:49.654   195.892     0.326   CH L/A
 14  2234   Mike Grandy          Charlotte NC         NASSCAR  0:49.656   195.884     0.328   -- -/-
 15  2475   Art Chamberland      Charlotte, NC        NASSCAR  0:49.660   195.868     0.332   -- -/-
 16  1234   Jacob Butner         Pinnacle NC          INRL     0:49.667   195.840     0.339   -- -/-
 17  0004   Julian Data          Virginia Beach, VA   INL      0:49.681   195.785     0.353   -- -/-
 18  2577   Rich Mastro          Middleboro, Mass     ivga     0:49.690   195.750     0.362   -- -/-
 19  2503   Michael Day          Canandaigua, NY      IVGA     0:49.711   195.667     0.383   -- -/-
 20  0043   Mike Koon            Lakeland, FL         NASSCAR  0:49.724   195.616     0.396   -- -/-
 21  2004   Jeff Cashmore        Milwaukee, WI        IVGA     0:49.727   195.604     0.399   -- -/-
 22  2149   P. B. Dentone        Cold Spring Harbor,  INL      0:49.728   195.600     0.400   -- -/-
 23  2365   Lamar Covington      Athens, Al.          IVGA     0:49.731   195.588     0.403   -- -/-
 24  2014   Alan Rosenthal       Stafford, VA         NRL      0:49.732   195.584     0.404   -- -/-
 25  2524   Marcus Pereira       Belo Horizonte, Bra  IVGA     0:49.732   195.584     0.404   -- -/-
 26  2579   RG Dillon            Alexandria Va.       NONE     0:49.732   195.584     0.404   -- -/-
 27  4287   Steve Elliott        Surrey BC            NONE     0:49.741   195.549     0.413   CH L/A
 28  3312   Jeff Euclid          Madison, WI          IVGA     0:49.742   195.545     0.414   FG N/A
 29  3901   Brian Choi           Pasadena, CA         NONE     0:49.743   195.541     0.415   -- -/-
 30  3216   Rick Johnson         Duluth, Minnesota    SSCRA    0:49.752   195.506     0.424   -- -/-
 31  2038   Bill Cranston        Ottawa, Ontario      NASSCAR  0:49.754   195.498     0.426   -- -/-
 32  2939   Justin Fegers        Mound, MN            NASSCAR  0:49.761   195.470     0.433   CG N/A
 33  3822   D Crow               Mcdonough, GA        IVGA     0:49.778   195.404     0.450   FG L/A
 34  2251   Jeff Perlin          Laurel, Md           IVGA     0:49.780   195.396     0.452   FG N/A
 35  3006   Jean Leclerc         Lasalle, Qc          IVGA     0:49.781   195.392     0.453   -- -/-
 36  2489   Ed Wernsing          Zephyrhills, Fl.     IVGA     0:49.786   195.372     0.458   -- -/-
 37  2266   Tim Collier          Little Rock, AR      NASSCAR  0:49.794   195.341     0.466   -- -/-
 38  2020   Rusty Whitson        Gray, TN             INL      0:49.799   195.321     0.471   CG L/A
 39  2419   Donnie Burnett       Travelers Rest S.C   INL      0:49.804   195.302     0.476   -- -/-
 40  2009   AL ROGERS            Fort Myers, Florida  IVGA     0:49.809   195.282     0.481   -- -/-
 41  2003   Dane Johnson         Murray, UT           NCAR     0:49.823   195.227     0.495   -- -/-
 42  2664   Scott Dillon         Lewiston,ID          NASSCAR  0:49.824   195.223     0.496   -- -/-
 43  2391   Chris Weidner        Matthews NC          IVGA     0:49.824   195.223     0.496   -- -/-
 44  2878   Wesley Turner        Eastport, Me         NONE     0:49.826   195.215     0.498   -- -/-
 45  2316   Mike Finn            Talladega, AL.       IVGA     0:49.827   195.212     0.499   -- -/-
 46  2085   Ted Gambill          Jonesville, NC       NASSCAR  0:49.834   195.184     0.506   -- -/-
 47  2446   Jim Covey            Huntsville, AL,      IVGA     0:49.837   195.172     0.509   -- -/-
 48  2518   Russ Boom            Huntsville, AL       IVGA     0:49.839   195.165     0.511   -- -/-
 49  4378   John Oddone          Pennsauken, NJ       NONE     0:49.839   195.165     0.511   CH L/A
 50  2138   J.D. Farr            Madison, WI          NRL      0:49.843   195.149     0.515   -- -/-

 * Config codes:
  [Car]          [Tires]             [Steering/Throttle]
  C - Chevy      G - Goodyear        L - Linear Steering
  F - Ford       H - Hoosier         N - Nonlinear Steering
  P - Pontiac                        A - Analog Throttle (pedals or joystick)
                                     B - Buttons
                                     K - Keyboard
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I can suppose like everything else in life, you get out of something what you put in.  Even bowling :)  Sweet.

When N2 came out I made the commitment to get seriously involved with it but the one year Hawaii was up while I ran only dega, everyone else who was competitive with me ran all the other tracks as well.

This basically put me a year behind. So I spent the next year of my life pretty much doing nothing but N2.  That meant listening to others, asking questions, researching the setups on the net, improving my hardware only accoring to what the sim needed, and ... serious seat time.

Joe Farr had put out a manual about N1 tracks that I downloaded.  At that time I had just started N2, and felt I had Charlotte down.  Being and Earnhardt fan, I thought it would be 'cool' to hit his favorite tracks, giving me even more incentive.

Note.  I remember those early days.  I would watch a race on Sunday and dayem if they didnt start talking about things I new, and could apply, in the sim!  Haven't had that feeling in a long long while and I miss it that excitement of finding something I loved doing and was so new at.

Anyway, each time I went to a track, at this point just Dega, Charlotte, and Rockingham, I would go to Joe's track guides as I started each track.  During Rockingham, I got bored and started really reading all of the track guides.

Then I got to Wilkesboro.  To this day, I think Wilkesboro saved my sim racing life hehe.

Almost the first thing Joe said about Wilkes almost jumped off the page; "One of the more difficult tracks in N1.  If you can get this track down you'll be able to master any track the game has to offer."

Needless to say the manual is hitting the floor as I scrambling to load up N2.  Man did I suck at that track.  I thought braking at the Rock, or Bristol was tough, geez.

Up until that point I had been spending approximately 15+ hours a week on testing, and after a few weeks, felt pretty good about Charlotte.  After about 6 weeks for the Rock.

But it took about 2 months of 40+ hours a week to get competitve (with AI) at Wilkes.

I knew my hours spent only by accident.  I had sold my small software company and was coming to an end with the consulting so my daily log was still in play.  Clearly I had the time to put in.  But I also could've spend that time having a normal life.

Nope.

When I got good at Wlikes, then bored at Wilkes but not by design I went back to the Rock.  My times immediately dropped almost a second, with the same setups I had created just two months earlier!  Apparently the brakes mean something in racing afterall lol

I modified the setups at Rock a bit, tested some more, then went to Charlotte.  BAM!  Way faster with the same Charlotte setups.  (Note to Tim: Work the short tracks, then move up to faster tracks.)

From there on out I always improved and I could always measure that improvement solely on seat time.  Any time I would hit a wall, I would go back to Wilkes and get an attitude adjustment :)

This was 1997-1998.  Since then the one thing I've learned is that there is NO replacement for seat time.  Today, yes, I spend only about an hour maybe two, getting used to a setup that I will have to use in someones fixed setup race.  But even though that setup is foreign to me I have been on that track so many times, with so many different setups, different weather, different types of drivers, different leagues.  There isn't really anything I haven't seen.  And that is not being uppity.  I have never been the fastest.  My being comfortable behind the wheel only comes from seat time, practicing and racing.  In that order.

Setting up a car ...

read more »

Maybe you're just trying _too_ hard ?

Sometimes you have to go slower to go faster.  Maybe you're just trying to
hard, and going in too deep ?

-Larry

You know what it takes....clearly.....to be competitive in sim
racing.....you've lived it.  I was totally pleased to read what you had to
say.....and thought it was great to see that "records" log.......even
recognized almost half the names on that list (bringing back some fun and
cool memories).  Looks like you started sim racing about a year before I did
(I think).  I started at the end of the N1 days....the Hawaii beta had ended
about a month or two earlier....and N2 had just come out.  I'm going totally
off of memory...so I could be off a little on that timing.

I wish I had the time to go back to those old league racing
days.....spending every waking hour that I wasn't earning a
living....practicing in N2....then N3 on TEN......lol.  I did it because I
loved it.  The "league races"....were just an excuse to do the practicing!
Don't you think?  ....lol.....

Anyway, its great to know some of the old guys are still around....even
though we don't hear from them very often (that's a shame.....the sim
community fragmentation as created).  You'd be a "vet" I'd love to race with
any time, any where, any track.  It would be just a joy to race with
you....win or lose.

Regards,

Tom

When I started in N1, I ran dega only.  Yep, classic degahead :) $900 phone
bills and one very exciting day ...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
TALLADEGA FASTLAP RECORDS

Tim White World Record Holder @ 197.186 mph

Validated: Tue Oct 15 10:03:21 1996 Eastern Daylight Time

Rank IVGA#        Name                  Home          League   Lap Time
Speed   Sec.Back  Config*
---- ----- -------------------- -------------------- --------- --------  ---
----  --------  -------
  1  2580   Tim White            Philadelphia PA      NONE     0:49.328
197.186     0.000   CH N/A
  2  2397   Josh Carr            Pigeon Forge, TN     IVGA     0:49.342
197.130     0.014   -- -/-
  3  0001   Joe Farr             Hoffman Estates, Il  INL      0:49.345
197.118     0.017   -- -/-
  4  3129   Charlie Mone         Mechanicville, NY    IVGA     0:49.408
196.867     0.080   -- -/-
  5  0028   Thomas A Agopsowicz  Edmonton AB Canada   IVGA     0:49.435
196.759     0.107   -- -/-
  6  2052   Bob Peters           Cincinnati, Oh       IVGA     0:49.484
196.565     0.156   -- -/-
  7  3051   Tim Yuhasz           Edmonton AB Canada   IVGA     0:49.492
196.533     0.164   -- -/-
  8  2008   Vinnie Palmese       Pocono Pines PA      NRL      0:49.495
196.521     0.167   -- -/-
  9  2435   Travis Robeson       Pigeon Forge, TN     IVGA     0:49.568
196.232     0.240   -- -/-
 10  2359   Alec A. Flory        Columbus, Ohio       CSNC96   0:49.594
196.129     0.266   -- -/-
 11  2318   Shawn Kosloff        Alexandria, VA       NRL      0:49.640
195.947     0.312   -- -/-
 12  0003   Jim Janssen          Sunnyvale, CA        INL      0:49.645
195.927     0.317   -- -/-
 13  4304   Roberto Tamaso       Sao Paulo,Brasil     NONE     0:49.654
195.892     0.326   CH L/A
 14  2234   Mike Grandy          Charlotte NC         NASSCAR  0:49.656
195.884     0.328   -- -/-
 15  2475   Art Chamberland      Charlotte, NC        NASSCAR  0:49.660
195.868     0.332   -- -/-
 16  1234   Jacob Butner         Pinnacle NC          INRL     0:49.667
195.840     0.339   -- -/-
 17  0004   Julian Data          Virginia Beach, VA   INL      0:49.681
195.785     0.353   -- -/-
 18  2577   Rich Mastro          Middleboro, Mass     ivga     0:49.690
195.750     0.362   -- -/-
 19  2503   Michael Day          Canandaigua, NY      IVGA     0:49.711
195.667     0.383   -- -/-
 20  0043   Mike Koon            Lakeland, FL         NASSCAR  0:49.724
195.616     0.396   -- -/-
 21  2004   Jeff Cashmore        Milwaukee, WI        IVGA     0:49.727
195.604     0.399   -- -/-
 22  2149   P. B. Dentone        Cold Spring Harbor,  INL      0:49.728
195.600     0.400   -- -/-
 23  2365   Lamar Covington      Athens, Al.          IVGA     0:49.731
195.588     0.403   -- -/-
 24  2014   Alan Rosenthal       Stafford, VA         NRL      0:49.732
195.584     0.404   -- -/-
 25  2524   Marcus Pereira       Belo Horizonte, Bra  IVGA     0:49.732
195.584     0.404   -- -/-
 26  2579   RG Dillon            Alexandria Va.       NONE     0:49.732
195.584     0.404   -- -/-
 27  4287   Steve Elliott        Surrey BC            NONE     0:49.741
195.549     0.413   CH L/A
 28  3312   Jeff Euclid          Madison, WI          IVGA     0:49.742
195.545     0.414   FG N/A
 29  3901   Brian Choi           Pasadena, CA         NONE     0:49.743
195.541     0.415   -- -/-
 30  3216   Rick Johnson         Duluth, Minnesota    SSCRA    0:49.752
195.506     0.424   -- -/-
 31  2038   Bill Cranston        Ottawa, Ontario      NASSCAR  0:49.754
195.498     0.426   -- -/-
 32  2939   Justin Fegers        Mound, MN            NASSCAR  0:49.761
195.470     0.433   CG N/A
 33  3822   D Crow               Mcdonough, GA        IVGA     0:49.778
195.404     0.450   FG L/A
 34  2251   Jeff Perlin          Laurel, Md           IVGA     0:49.780
195.396     0.452   FG N/A
 35  3006   Jean Leclerc         Lasalle, Qc          IVGA     0:49.781
195.392     0.453   -- -/-
 36  2489   Ed Wernsing          Zephyrhills, Fl.     IVGA     0:49.786
195.372     0.458   -- -/-
 37  2266   Tim Collier          Little Rock, AR      NASSCAR  0:49.794
195.341     0.466   -- -/-
 38  2020   Rusty Whitson        Gray, TN             INL      0:49.799
195.321     0.471   CG L/A
 39  2419   Donnie Burnett       Travelers Rest S.C   INL      0:49.804
195.302     0.476   -- -/-
 40  2009   AL ROGERS            Fort Myers, Florida  IVGA     0:49.809
195.282     0.481   -- -/-
 41  2003   Dane Johnson         Murray, UT           NCAR     0:49.823
195.227     0.495   -- -/-
 42  2664   Scott Dillon         Lewiston,ID          NASSCAR  0:49.824
195.223     0.496   -- -/-
 43  2391   Chris Weidner        Matthews NC          IVGA     0:49.824
195.223     0.496   -- -/-
 44  2878   Wesley Turner        Eastport, Me         NONE     0:49.826
195.215     0.498   -- -/-
 45  2316   Mike Finn            Talladega, AL.       IVGA     0:49.827
195.212     0.499   -- -/-
 46  2085   Ted Gambill          Jonesville, NC       NASSCAR  0:49.834
195.184     0.506   -- -/-
 47  2446   Jim Covey            Huntsville, AL,      IVGA     0:49.837
195.172     0.509   -- -/-
 48  2518   Russ Boom            Huntsville, AL       IVGA     0:49.839
195.165     0.511   -- -/-
 49  4378   John Oddone          Pennsauken, NJ       NONE     0:49.839
195.165     0.511   CH L/A
 50  2138   J.D. Farr            Madison, WI          NRL      0:49.843
195.149     0.515   -- -/-

 * Config codes:
  [Car]          [Tires]             [Steering/Throttle]
  C - Chevy      G - Goodyear        L - Linear Steering
  F - Ford       H - Hoosier         N - Nonlinear Steering
  P - Pontiac                        A - Analog Throttle (pedals or
joystick)
                                     B - Buttons
                                     K - Keyboard
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------

Now I can suppose like everything else in life, you get out of something
what you put in.  Even bowling :)  Sweet.

When N2 came out I made the commitment to get seriously involved with it but
the one year Hawaii was up while I ran only dega, everyone else who was
competitive with me ran all the other tracks as well.

This basically put me a year behind. So I spent the next year of my life
pretty much doing nothing but N2.  That meant listening to others, asking
questions, researching the setups on the net, improving my hardware only
accoring to what the sim needed, and ... serious seat time.

Joe Farr had put out a manual about N1 tracks that I downloaded.  At that
time I had just started N2, and felt I had Charlotte down.  Being and
Earnhardt fan, I thought it would be 'cool' to hit his favorite tracks,
giving me even more incentive.

Note.  I remember those early days.  I would watch a race on Sunday and
dayem if they didnt start talking about things I new, and could apply, in
the sim!  Haven't had that feeling in a long long while and I miss it that
excitement of finding something I loved doing and was so new at.

Anyway, each time I went to a track, at this point just Dega, Charlotte, and
Rockingham, I would go to Joe's track guides as I started each track.
During Rockingham, I got bored and started really reading all of the track
guides.

Then I got to Wilkesboro.  To this day, I think Wilkesboro saved my sim
racing life hehe.

Almost the first thing Joe said about Wilkes almost jumped off the page;
"One of the more difficult tracks in N1.  If you can get this track down
you'll be able to master any track the game has to offer."

Needless to say the manual is hitting the floor as I scrambling to load up
N2.  Man did I suck at that track.  I thought braking at the Rock, or
Bristol was tough, geez.

Up until that point I had been spending approximately 15+ hours a week on
testing, and after a few weeks, felt pretty good about Charlotte.  After
about 6 weeks for the Rock.

But it took about 2 months of 40+ hours a week to get competitve (with AI)
at Wilkes.

I knew my hours spent only by accident.  I had sold my small software
company and was coming to an end with the consulting so my daily log was
still in play.  Clearly I had the time to put in.  But I also
...

read more »

Hehe...  Sounds like a "no-win" situation.  If I go slower I simply GET
slower...
*** it - I give up.  I'll just have to enjoy(or get USED to) being in the last
row of the grid all the time, and last of the running cars.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPLRank:+8.09
N2002 Rank:+22.329

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-Larry