rec.autos.simulators

GP3 "canned" spins

Richard Walke

GP3 "canned" spins

by Richard Walke » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00




> > Real F1 cars are fitted with rev limiters and devices that won't allow a
> > gear change if it would be outside the rev range of the engine. Jeez,
> > these modern F1 drivers have it easy, they only use the clutch about 3
> > times a race as well ;)

> If that is true, how did H?kkinen manage to shift one gear too low last
> year in ..uuh...Monza was it, and spin out.

Because, at the time, the revs were at an acceptable level for first or
second gear to be OK?

Sure?

When the driver flicks the paddle, the throttle is released, clutch pressed,
gear changed, clutch released, and finally, the throttle pressed.  A
computer does all that.

That is what happens in a real F1 car, I think.  Well, I'm not 100% certain,
but it *does* happen the other way around - to stop burning out engines.

--
Richard.

"Bang bang Maxwell's silver hammer made sure that she was dead."

Joona Vaini

GP3 "canned" spins

by Joona Vaini » Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:00:00



> >Real F1 cars are fitted with rev limiters and devices that won't allow a
> >gear change if it would be outside the rev range of the engine.
> >Jeez, these modern F1 drivers have it easy, they only use the clutch
> >about 3 times a race as well ;)

> If that is true, how did H?kkinen manage to shift one gear too low last
> year in ..uuh...Monza was it, and spin out.

Hmmm?
Brrrrraaaaa(downshift)aaaa(downshift)aaak(downshift)eeeeaaaaaAAAACCELERAT...
oh shit, SPIN, I guess there were too many downshifts.

Could that be it, perhaps?

At that time there was

Dunno what you mean? It's perfectly possible to shift higher any way you
like. Not that it was very smart, though.

Looks like you don't know what the *** you're talking about.

-lark-

argh

GP3 "canned" spins

by argh » Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Hello,

And, in fact the engine is totally swiched off during gear shifting.
After the shifting, the engine is started again.

(Well, at least the Mercedes engine in McLaren does that.
Don't actually know about the others.)

--
Jyrki Laine ; GPLRank +10.91 (feels like I have reached my limit :( )
<--
(No electrons were harmed in production of this message)
-->

Jussi Lassi

GP3 "canned" spins

by Jussi Lassi » Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:00:00





>> > Real F1 cars are fitted with rev limiters and devices that won't
>> > allow a gear change if it would be outside the rev range of the
>> > engine. Jeez, these modern F1 drivers have it easy, they only use
>> > the clutch about 3 times a race as well ;)

>> If that is true, how did H?kkinen manage to shift one gear too low
>> last year in ..uuh...Monza was it, and spin out.

>Because, at the time, the revs were at an acceptable level for first or
>second gear to be OK?

>> At that time there was discussion about the gear shifts in F1
>> cars...there is a rule that says the gear changes must go directly
>> from the driver to the gear box, without ANY kind of intelligence or
>> control.

>Sure?

>When the driver flicks the paddle, the throttle is released, clutch
>pressed, gear changed, clutch released, and finally, the throttle
>pressed.  A computer does all that.

Yes, but the computer can't decide when or if to do it.

Well, just to prove my point, I digged up FIA rules for gear changing,
and lo and behold, I'm wrong :P. My initial knowledge of the matter was
from some Finnish newspapers, which I believe were a bit biased in the
matter. Ah well.

So, over-rev limiter is alloved when the gear is changed, but when
changing upwards, the change must be immediate.

Quote from the rules at http://www.fia.com/homepage/selection-a.html:

9.4 Gear changing :

9.4.1) For the purposes of, and only during gear changing, the clutch and
throttle need not be under the control of the driver.

9.4.2) Each individual gear change must be initiated by the driver and,
within the mechanical constraints of the gearbox, the requested gear must
be engaged immediately unless over-rev protection is used.

9.4.3 ) Multiple gear changes may be made following one driver request
provided they are not made before he needs the destination gear and that
the car is not driven by any of the intermediate gears during the
sequence. If for any reason the sequence cannot be completed the car must
be left in neutral or the original gear.

9.4.4 ) If a gear change fails for mechanical reasons (as opposed to the
predicted engine revs in the target gear being too high), further
attempts to engage the gear may be made automatically without the driver
having to make a new request.

9.4.5 ) If an over-rev protection strategy is used this may only prevent
engagement of the target gear, it must not induce any significant delay.
If a gear change is refused in this way, engagement may only follow a new
and separate request made by the driver.

Eldre

GP3 "canned" spins

by Eldre » Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:00:00


writes:

I can't believe they have detailed rules about this...  Amazing what you learn.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +69.95

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

N..

GP3 "canned" spins

by N.. » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00


spoke:

Amazingly ***IMO. :-)
--
Nos

Jo Hels

GP3 "canned" spins

by Jo Hels » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00



>spoke:

>>I can't believe they have detailed rules about this...  Amazing what you learn.

>Amazingly ***IMO. :-)

Yeah, well.. I suppose this is the situation you get when engineers
stretch the rules as far as they possibly can regardless of the
intentions of the regulations.

The sport starts off with more "general" regulations. But when the
interests get bigger, the competitors start to exploit every little
hole they can find so you are pushed to close those holes with "anal"
detailed regulations.

JoH

Eldre

GP3 "canned" spins

by Eldre » Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:00:00


>>I can't believe they have detailed rules about this...  Amazing what you
>learn.

>Amazingly ***IMO. :-)
>--
>Nos

I was *thinking* that, but I didn't want to SAY it...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPL hcp. +69.95

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Uwe Schuerka

GP3 "canned" spins

by Uwe Schuerka » Mon, 31 Jul 2000 04:00:00



>Real F1 cars are fitted with rev limiters and devices that won't allow a
>gear change if it would be outside the rev range of the engine.
>Jeez, these modern F1 drivers have it easy, they only use the clutch about 3
>times a race as well ;)

>--
>Ian Parker

<irony> Aaaah, this explains why you see the real f1 drivers
floor the throttle and throw the car into first gear as soon as
the mechanics start the engine! They cannot damage the engine
even if they wanted to!!! </irony>

Thanks for finally explaining this mistery ;-)

uwe

--
Uwe Schuerkamp, QuBiz ////////////// Phone: +49 5241 80 10 66
Carl-Bertelsmann-Str. 161 I  \\\\\\\\\\ uwe.schuerkamp at qubiz.com
33311 Guetersloh \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ http://www.schuerkamp.de/
PGP Fingerprint:  2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F  67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61


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