Mr. Levett. Thanks for the other side of the story.
Todd
Todd
<snip>
14??? I don't think so.
Both Rubens and Sato commited the same infringment this weekend, and both
lost their best qual lap without question.
How is that preferencial treatment?
Look back to Austria 00 where driver and team point were split n McLarens
favour to help Mika though the FIA stated this could never happen again in
94?
Just one example... get facts straight man.
> --
> ---------------
> Steve Levett
> > I'm sensing that you just might have a slight bit of dislike of MS.
> > David G Fisher
> > > Well, they wouldnt want to ban a driver who pulls in the viewers for
the
> > PPV
> > > TV, would they?
> > > --
> > > ---------------
> > > Steve Levett
> > > > > I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that
season.
> > > Just as
> > > > > they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve.
> > > > In other words, punishment at all .....
> > > > Beers and cheers
> > > > (uncle) Goy
> > > > http://www.theuspits.com
> > > > http://www.teammirage.com
> > > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life"
> > > > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--
--
---------------
Steve Levett
> <snip>
> > Ferarri are allowed to break the rules again by having 14 sets of tyres
> for
> > MS in Brazil.
> 14??? I don't think so.
The red glasses are blinding you, a vast majority of F1 fans think they get
all the breaks, only MS/Ferarri fans disagree.
--
---------------
Steve Levett
> Both Rubens and Sato commited the same infringment this weekend, and both
> lost their best qual lap without question.
> How is that preferencial treatment?
> Look back to Austria 00 where driver and team point were split n McLarens
> favour to help Mika though the FIA stated this could never happen again in
> 94?
> Just one example... get facts straight man.
> > It's true that I dont like him, but what I hate more is the FIAs
continued
> > preferential treatment of him and Ferarri. Of course this has nothing to
> do
> > with the amount of fans they draw in, the bit of merchandise sold or the
> > amount of fans that buy PPV TV.
> > --
> > ---------------
> > Steve Levett
> > > I'm sensing that you just might have a slight bit of dislike of MS.
> > > David G Fisher
> > > > Well, they wouldnt want to ban a driver who pulls in the viewers for
> the
> > > PPV
> > > > TV, would they?
> > > > --
> > > > ---------------
> > > > Steve Levett
> > > > > > I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that
> season.
> > > > Just as
> > > > > > they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve.
> > > > > In other words, punishment at all .....
> > > > > Beers and cheers
> > > > > (uncle) Goy
> > > > > http://www.theuspits.com
> > > > > http://www.teammirage.com
> > > > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life"
> > > > > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--
Cheers,
Ron
> The red glasses are blinding you, a vast majority of F1 fans think they
get
> all the breaks, only MS/Ferarri fans disagree.
> --
> ---------------
> Steve Levett
> > Its very obvious you don't like him/them, you make such claims which
you
> > fail to back up.
> > True, The FIA seem more like the FAI in rule making and enforcing but
as
> > these decisions always work in someones favours, I think if you look at
it
> > objectivly, where inconsistent enforcment of ruels apply Ferrari has
both
> > benefited and lost out as all teams.
> > Both Rubens and Sato commited the same infringment this weekend, and
both
> > lost their best qual lap without question.
> > How is that preferencial treatment?
> > Look back to Austria 00 where driver and team point were split n
McLarens
> > favour to help Mika though the FIA stated this could never happen again
in
> > 94?
> > Just one example... get facts straight man.
> > > It's true that I dont like him, but what I hate more is the FIAs
> continued
> > > preferential treatment of him and Ferarri. Of course this has nothing
to
> > do
> > > with the amount of fans they draw in, the bit of merchandise sold or
the
> > > amount of fans that buy PPV TV.
> > > --
> > > ---------------
> > > Steve Levett
> > > > I'm sensing that you just might have a slight bit of dislike of MS.
> > > > David G Fisher
> > > > > Well, they wouldnt want to ban a driver who pulls in the viewers
for
> > the
> > > > PPV
> > > > > TV, would they?
> > > > > --
> > > > > ---------------
> > > > > Steve Levett
> > > > > > > I would assmue the would DQ the driver for the whole of that
> > season.
> > > > > Just as
> > > > > > > they did when MS tried to wreck Villeneuve.
> > > > > > In other words, punishment at all .....
> > > > > > Beers and cheers
> > > > > > (uncle) Goy
> > > > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > > > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > > > > "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life"
> > > > > > --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--
After the race, Niki Lauda, Jean Alesi and Dr. Mario Theissen
(Williams/BMW's engine specialist) said this incident had been JPM's fault,
and I tend to agree. From the onboard camera it looked much different from
what it looked like in the main TV view.
JPM in a short post-race interview yesterday BTW gave quite a different
impression from his usual nonchalant matter-of-fact attitude he's always
shown when his maneuvers had cost someone else rather than himself - sullen,
pouty, tightly holding onto his girlfriends hand. Complaining briefly but
fairly emotionally, whereas after the previous incidents he'd alway adopted
this 'this is purely a racing incident necessary for the competition'
attitude.
Don't know whether his team had given him a spanking, but could have been.
Achim
Hmmmmm.
Rafe Mc
Agreed, very annoying and unnecessary. I think we can work out that
we're watching F1.
While we're on the same subject, how annoying is the timing system
now? Instead of telling you the gap from the leader, they only tell
you how many stops (repeatedly). Why change something that aint broke?
I thought it was a bit of cause and effect from both drivers, so both
of them were penalised anyway (by crashing out).
I thought most of F1 was in agreement with the JPM/MS thing, pretty
obvious really.
agreed, I can see that happening. Teams will still design the engines
to last only 400km, they will only do the absolute minimum laps in
practice that they can get away with.
But according to Max, that won't be a problem cos he wants Friday
practice banned as well :(
Well whether Ferrari or anyone else gets penalised, it's a stupid rule
to begin with. Like every driver has said, noone makes a move thinking
that they may take someone out. They are simply looking to move up a
position. The bosses already frown upon "risky" overtaking manoeuvres,
putting more pressure on the driver to "not have a go" is silly.
I know there are those who'll say they should only attempt if they
know they can make it, but F1 will become (even more) boring if
overtaking is made more difficult.
Actually 16 tyres, 4 sets, but they can have a full allocation per
car, rather than per driver. So MS has 8 sets at his disposal
(although not all 8 for one car). Which makes one wonder how the FIA
can come up with such odd interpretations of their own rules...???
Rafe Mc
> I thought most of F1 was in agreement with the JPM/MS thing, pretty
> obvious really.
Not sure what you mean exactly, but when people were finally able to see the
JPM/MS first turn in it's entirety and from different angles, it become very
clear that JPM squeezed MS's car WAY up onto the curbing unecessarily, which
led to the accident.
David G Fisher
David G Fisher
> After the race, Niki Lauda, Jean Alesi and Dr. Mario Theissen
> (Williams/BMW's engine specialist) said this incident had been JPM's
fault,
> and I tend to agree. From the onboard camera it looked much different from
> what it looked like in the main TV view.
> JPM in a short post-race interview yesterday BTW gave quite a different
> impression from his usual nonchalant matter-of-fact attitude he's always
> shown when his maneuvers had cost someone else rather than himself -
sullen,
> pouty, tightly holding onto his girlfriends hand. Complaining briefly but
> fairly emotionally, whereas after the previous incidents he'd alway
adopted
> this 'this is purely a racing incident necessary for the competition'
> attitude.
> Don't know whether his team had given him a spanking, but could have been.
> Achim
> > SO Montoya didn't swerve across the road in front of Schumacher
yesterday
> > at Brazil ?
> > How come when Schumacher makes a mistake or a questionable driving
> decision
> > he gets slammed from all quarters, but when Montoya, Villeneuve or
(insert
> > non-ferrari driver here) does the same it's ok ?
> > I suppose it was Schumachers fault that the loose cannon (Montoya) drove
> > into the back of Schumacher last night too ?
> > Ferrari & Schumacher *** theories are getting real old real
quick,
> > open your eyes and look at a incident from all angles before laying
blame.
> > Cheers,
> > Ron
A lot of JPM's maneuvers were actually similar to what you see in pickup
races on Sierra.com a lot - people trying to win the race in T1, people
taking the passed car out with them in a mishappen pass attempted without a
real chance for it to work, people going for spaces that aren't actually
there - that sort of thing.
Staying out of trouble and - despite all competition - integrate in a way
into the group of racers (by giving the same respect that you expect to
receive) that run the race are important capabilities as well.
Achim
> David G Fisher
> > I was able to see replays from MS' rear-looking onboard camera, and must
> > say, although MS changed tracksides, the collision was JPM's fault. He
> > seemed to want to impress MS by driving extremely close to him, because
> the
> > speed difference between MS and JPM was so small that JPM could have
> easily
> > pulled back a bit and left a safety gap. But he chose to stay extremely
> > close to MS, and then simply overcooked it.
> > After the race, Niki Lauda, Jean Alesi and Dr. Mario Theissen
> > (Williams/BMW's engine specialist) said this incident had been JPM's
> fault,
> > and I tend to agree. From the onboard camera it looked much different
from
> > what it looked like in the main TV view.
> > JPM in a short post-race interview yesterday BTW gave quite a different
> > impression from his usual nonchalant matter-of-fact attitude he's always
> > shown when his maneuvers had cost someone else rather than himself -
> sullen,
> > pouty, tightly holding onto his girlfriends hand. Complaining briefly
but
> > fairly emotionally, whereas after the previous incidents he'd alway
> adopted
> > this 'this is purely a racing incident necessary for the competition'
> > attitude.
> > Don't know whether his team had given him a spanking, but could have
been.
> > Achim
> > > SO Montoya didn't swerve across the road in front of Schumacher
> yesterday
> > > at Brazil ?
> > > How come when Schumacher makes a mistake or a questionable driving
> > decision
> > > he gets slammed from all quarters, but when Montoya, Villeneuve or
> (insert
> > > non-ferrari driver here) does the same it's ok ?
> > > I suppose it was Schumachers fault that the loose cannon (Montoya)
drove
> > > into the back of Schumacher last night too ?
> > > Ferrari & Schumacher *** theories are getting real old real
> quick,
> > > open your eyes and look at a incident from all angles before laying
> blame.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Ron
I think what led to this punishment is that he'd pulled off rude and risky
moves several times before, which only worked or at least didn't end in an
accident because the other driver helped him or pulled maturely back to
avoid havoc, which made the Stewarts give him a slap on the hand.
AAMOF, some of his moves remind me of Sierra.com pickup races ;-)
Achim
> > I thought most of F1 was in agreement with the JPM/MS thing, pretty
> > obvious really.
> JPM/MS thing??
> Not sure what you mean exactly, but when people were finally able to see
the
> JPM/MS first turn in it's entirety and from different angles, it become
very
> clear that JPM squeezed MS's car WAY up onto the curbing unecessarily,
which
> led to the accident.
> David G Fisher
I don't think so, I think it was more to do with the criticism of the
Aust GP as well as the different views of the race stewards.
They suddenly were of the opinion "No incidents will be tolerated"
(which they have continued with this silly penalise-10-grid-positions
thing). And so they decided to jump on the first person who infringed.
Also one thing the FIA must change is the issue of a single race
steward for the entire series. Having a different steward (with
different opinions and views) makes for different interpretations each
race. No consistency. They should take a leaf out of CART's book and
appoint a travelling steward to each race.
FWIW, I think that JPM gave MS enough room, but there are a lot of
people who think otherwise. I think 99% of fans would call it a
"racing incident" and leave it at that, no need for penalties, both
drivers were penalised enough because of the incident.
But that's exactly what makes him such an exciting driver to watch -
he makes a move where no one else would be able to pull it off. I
agree, he often outdrives the car in attempting some of his moves,
like at the start in Brazil. But you have the opposite at McLaren,
where DC and KR were stuck behind the Renaults for an absolute age.
They were obviously quicker, but neither driver had the balls to try
and manufacture something. I know who I'd rather watch carving through
the field, like JPM and MS did in the last 2 races.
MS is of a similar style to JPM, the differences being that he tends
to be less wild in his attempts and pull them off more often, but he
is the most ruthless when it comes to defending a position.
Rafe Mc