rec.autos.simulators

Is grand prix legends any good?

Larr

Is grand prix legends any good?

by Larr » Sun, 04 Jan 2004 05:35:18

Well put :)

-Larry



>    Maybe, but

>    It is 5 years old and people will still tell you it's #1. To see the
most
> revolutionary piece of sim racing software of all time - get GPL. Any sim
> racer without a copy of GPL is not a sim racer at all. And the
> tracks.................it's worth it just for the 174 corner, 14+ mile
> Nurburgring! And then there's Spa, Monza, etc when they were not made to
be
> safe! :) Owning this sim is like owning a piece of history, both for the
> time period it represents and the history of GPL in the sim market. It is
a
> giant on both counts. It's still the only open wheeler sim that can be
raced
> properly (20 online at once) to this day. We can thank the FIA***heads
for
> that since they won't allow online racing of sims based on modern F1.

>    Haqsau has given a bit of an impression that GPL is not realistic -
> wrong. Papy admitted that the tyre model was less than perfect (with a few
> years of 20/20 hindsight I might add) and it seems some have let this
effect
> their perspective. The sense of realism is extreme.

>    Simple answer - get GPL or miss out on something the rest of us who
have
> been around since day 1 of release (and even the odd beta copies pre
> release) have marveled over the last 5 years! GET IT!



> > You get a lot of hype about GPL here because people have been enjoying
> this
> > game for 5 years and therefore they tend to look askance at anything
new.
> > But here are some undeniable facts that any objective person would admit
> to:
> > a) it's not the best simulator every made, most likely that title
belongs
> to
> > NR 2003; b) no matter what you do with graphics upgrades it does not and
> > will not ever look as good as a more recent sim because the pale color
> > palette and flat lighting apparently can not be changed; c) there are
> known
> > inadequacies in the tire model that all the fast guys exploit - they run
> > unrealistic setups and drive it like an arcade game and as a result are
a
> > good 2 seconds faster than anyone who sets up their car and drives it in
a
> > realistic manner.  Don't get me wrong, it is a truly fun game and if you
> can
> > find it cheap it is worth getting.  Certainly if you like a difficult
> > challenge GPL is it.  Just don't expect it to live up to the hype.  I'm
> not
> > trying to talk you out of it, I'm just saying that realistically there
is
> no
> > reason to go searching through every computer shop in the Netherlands
just
> > to find it.  If you want the best road racing simulator ever made just
get
> > NR 2003 and download one of the Trans Am mods instead.  When I go back
and
> > forth between the two I find GPL feels absolutely numb compared to the
TA
> > physics, and I can't stand looking at the washed out graphics in GPL
> > anymore, despite having all the add-ons.



> > > Thanks for al your advice. Now I know for sure I am going to look for
> the
> > > game in the shops (it is not widely available here in the Netherlands,
> but
> > I
> > > will search everywhere till I find it).
> > > Thanks again.

> > > Sjoerd

> > > --
> > > Sjoerd's website:

> > > www.sjoweb.nl

Haqsa

Is grand prix legends any good?

by Haqsa » Sun, 04 Jan 2004 08:36:19

Let me put it a different way, it CAN be realistic, but that depends on the
user.  The default setups are fairly realistic, and the replays that come
with the game show some pretty realistic driving.  A person could certainly
learn to drive with the default setups at benchmark pace and do moderately
well online if he is consistent enough.  But the current records at most
tracks are at least 2 seconds faster than that, sometimes quite a bit more.

I have downloaded plenty of hotlap replays and setups, and very few are
realistic.  Not for pavement anyway.  Maybe for a dirt track. Nobody would
use such huge bars, huge toe settings, and minimal brake bias in real life.
Nobody on a hard pavement race track would throw the car sideways into a
corner to slow it down faster, yet I have seen this plenty of times in
hotlap replays, particularly at places like Mexico or Kyalami where there
are a lot of low speed turns.  The tire model may not force you to drive
this way but it certainly rewards you for doing so.

Again, it CAN be realistic if you decide to play it that way.  And it can be
a lot of fun even when played realistically.  But there are big holes in the
physics model that allow a person to go faster by not being realistic.
That's just a fact, the evidence can be downloaded by anyone.  I won't name
names, but there are even several prominent GPLers who have said as much.

And again please understand I still play this game all the time, and I do
enjoy it.  In fact I was in Eldred's full length Rouen race just yesterday
and I managed a third place out of 11 starters.  So it's not like I don't
like this game or I suck at it or something, I do like at and I'm not that
bad.  Despite how it may appear I'm not trying to put it down and I'm not
trolling.  I'm just trying to be objective.  There is no doubt that when it
was released it was the greatest simulator ever.  But I'm sure even the
developers would take exception to anyone saying it is still the greatest
sim ever.  After all they have turned out 3 more games since then, each one
a marked improvement over its predecessor from a simulation standpoint.



Ruud Dingeman

Is grand prix legends any good?

by Ruud Dingeman » Sun, 04 Jan 2004 15:30:54


No need to search 'everywhere' Sjoerd, just look in the bargain ba***t
dept of the V & D warehouse (here in Tilburg it has several at 7.5 euros.)

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank -21)

JLe

Is grand prix legends any good?

by JLe » Sun, 04 Jan 2004 19:30:51




>> game in the shops (it is not widely available here in the
>> Netherlands, but I will search everywhere till I find it).

> No need to search 'everywhere' Sjoerd, just look in the bargain
> ba***t dept of the V & D warehouse (here in Tilburg it has several
> at 7.5 euros.)

> Regards, Rudy
> (GPLRank -21)

Or order on-line at www.sold-out.co.uk for 4.99 UK pounds
And get NR2003 for 9.95 euros at Dynabyte :-)
Sjoerd van der Wa

Is grand prix legends any good?

by Sjoerd van der Wa » Mon, 05 Jan 2004 03:05:55






> >> game in the shops (it is not widely available here in the
> >> Netherlands, but I will search everywhere till I find it).

> > No need to search 'everywhere' Sjoerd, just look in the bargain
> > ba***t dept of the V & D warehouse (here in Tilburg it has several
> > at 7.5 euros.)

> > Regards, Rudy
> > (GPLRank -21)

> Or order on-line at www.sold-out.co.uk for 4.99 UK pounds
> And get NR2003 for 9.95 euros at Dynabyte :-)

I'll do that, thanks.

Sjoerd

Byron John Forbe

Is grand prix legends any good?

by Byron John Forbe » Tue, 06 Jan 2004 07:25:04


more.

   To be expected. Simmers do a lot more laps than real life drivers. Also,
they can explore and perfect what would be insane in real life. Resetting is
a lot easier than recovering in hospital! :)

   I don't think scrubbing off speed by being a little sideways on entry to
a corner (throwing it in) is unrealistic. The most glaring hole in GPL, and
any sim that doesn't cover brake wear and overheating, is the practice of
adjusting brake bias so front wheels dont lock and controlling the rears
with throttle - effective ABS. That stinks. In real life the rear brakes
would melt down and there would be a slight fuel economy issue as well.
Personally, I won't even consider simming again until this is addressed.....
and I can race online against full fields......in a non Nascar sim :)

   Now that's more balanced. I'd say it's still the best open wheeler sim
since it's the only one that allows full online play. And thus it's
longevity. Maybe Papy pay off the FIA? :)

Haqsa

Is grand prix legends any good?

by Haqsa » Tue, 06 Jan 2004 09:16:54

Have you tried either the TPTCC mod or the beta PTA physics for NR 2003?
IMO that's the best and most complete physics available right now for online
road racing.  I don't think you can get away with the brake bias trick in
it, although I haven't actually tried.  And certainly you can race a full
field in it because it's still the Papy online code.  Also there are a lot
of converted GPL tracks available for it.  Granted, it's not an open wheeler
sim so you have to get used to sitting in a restrictive***pit view, but
other than that I think it's the best online road racing available right
now.  Oops, I already said that, didn't I?  ;o)



5211

Is grand prix legends any good?

by 5211 » Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:25:26


> Granted, it's not an open wheeler
> sim so you have to get used to sitting in a restrictive***pit view,

Is it not possible to cut the 3D model so that there is no top?

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