rec.autos.simulators

Well, after hearing all the raves about F1RS here I quit waiting for the
U.S./North American version and got my U.K. import...although the graphics
are crisp and the weather effects are awesome, it feels like I am driving in
slow motion compared to the blockier but way more effective (for generating
a sense of speed) CART:PR.

Driving wise, it is too early to tell, but initial impressions are that it
feels more like GP2 (canned and over-controlled) than the immensely more
realistic CART:PR.  However, it took a month of fiddling to get CART:PR to
feel like anything other than a bucket of bolts flailing itself
uncontrollably all over the road, so I hold out hope for F1RS.

My question: I have a T3 and am wondering how to get a respectable pedal
set-up.  First off, the wheel and pedals are correctly configured and
calibrated in Win95 using the ProPanel.  The adjustment for sensitivity in
F1RS seems to do nothing of the sort.  There is only precisely one spot for
each of the acceleration and braking that I can use to prevent the two from
interfering with each other.

The car will idle above its normal idle speed (as though the pedal was being
partly depressed) until I turn the sensitivity down to about somewhere in
the 25% range (thanks for no digital output of the setting, UbiSoft).  When
I hit this point, I am left with a functioning but somewhat dull pedal
response.

The brakes are being applied (as though the pedal was partly depressed)
unless I turn the sensitivity down to about 20%.  Unfortunately, what I am
left with is a pedal that needs to be depressed almost all the way to get
any braking action whatsoever.  Perhaps this is 80% no effect, as the slider
would suggest--except that if I adjust it any higher, the brakes are on the
whole time.

The cars already have unrealistically high engine deceleration, and driving
with the brakes on is ludicrous.  Having to push the pedal 80% of the way
down before anything happens is equally ludicrous.  I am desperately hoping
that I am missing something!

I thought the braking in CART:PR was bad (only the first 30% of the pedal
travel seems to be used), but I realise now that I would rather have the
top-end of pedal travel doing the work instead of the bottom-end (if those
two bad choices are the only options).

I know at least one of you F1RS gurus will be able to shed some light on
this as there is no way this sim. could have been pumped-up to its current
r.a.s. levels if it has this seemingly obvious control flaw.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Marc.
--
****************************************************************************
Marc Collins

"Change is inevitable...except from a vending machine."
****************************************************************************

I have a Thrustmaster Nascar Pro.  I have it set to "combined" mode with the
rudder pedal box unchecked.  I set the accelerator, brake, and steering to
100%.  With this, I get perfectly linear acceleration when I accelerate in
idle.  If you're getting some acceleration in idle, your controller isn't
calibrated correctly.  I believe the cars idle at 1600 RPMs.  If you set the
sensitivity towards the 0% range, you get zero acceleration and braking
until the very end of the pedal movement, then 100% acceleration and
braking.  Some people have reported different behavior when running under
Windows NT.

Also, the game models the effect of downforce on braking.  You can slam on
the brakes hard if you're going fast, but you have to ease off of them as
you slow down and generate less downforce.  In fact, I don't think you can
lock the brakes up at high speeds, which I believe is realistic.

One other note.  The game uses the default 5% deadband, which you can't
modify via menus.  However, you can patch your DirectInput dll to a
different deadband value.  I find a 2% deadband works great.

You should never have any acceleration when not pressing the pedal,
regardless of the sensitivity setting.

I sounds like you're getting braking when you don't have your foot on the
brake.  I haven't noticed any unrealistic engine deceleration.  Again, it
sounds like you have calibration problems.  Are you using the "separate"
mode for the T3?  I found horrible spiking in this mode when testing in the
Pro Panel utility.

It is.

--
Kevin
(Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

Marc,

I had the same problem.  Does the following sound familiar - when you  
calibrate your wheel, it also asks you to calibrate the rudder?  If this  
is the case, you need to get hold of Thrustmaster's ProPanel utility, then  
edit the properties of your wheel to remove the "rudder".  For some reason  
the joystick definition for my wheel (T1 w/o adaptor) had an x-axis, a  
y-axis, and a rudder; the pedals were being read twice, once as the y-axis  
and a second time as the rudder.  I guess this is what was causing F1RS'  
problem.

If that fixes it, you'll probably want to set your sensitivities in F1RS  
back to about 80% each - at the 0% end of the scale the controls are  
pretty much on/off with no measurement inbetween.

James

[snip]

F1 is not actually a first release by Ubi Soft. It is really POD2. The
reason F1 was made was because Ubi had the POD engine to build with. I got
burnt out a year ago on the available sims and tried POD which came bundled
with my computer. It hooked me and I became pretty good. I played against
the best drivers and competed in the 10,000 contest (did not win  :-(   ).
When I sat down to F1, it felt EXACTLY like I was racing POD with F1 cars
and tracks. CPR puts some fear in me when I'm driving fast but I can cruise
along yawning with F1. This is not a dig, but I sometimes wonder if the
people who complain about CPR and praise F1, like F1 more simply because
it's easier and has a better frame rate than CPR on most systems.

Again, I like F1 and was/am a fan of the Ubi Soft developers for a long time
but F1 is definitely easier than CPR. I've never driven a Champ car or an
F1, but I'd assume that 900 hp should scare the hell out of me.

Last thing, I have to rip Ubi Soft for the bugs in F1. I've read almost
every post on F1 here at r.a.s. and the bugs that were in POD are alive and
well in F1. Brings back the POD nightmares. Almost every one of them such as
"black sky". Patches that don't work correctly. Since F1 IS NOT an all new
product, these bugs appearing all over again is hard to forgive.

Thanks for your help...

All aids are off...of course.

I am using the T3 ProPanel and all is well there and in the regular "Game
Controllers" panel.  Combined, no rudder selected.  The calibration seems to
work perfectly in the panel (under test) and it works perfectly in all my
other driving games (about 8).

I have/had already applied the DirectX patch and set it to 1% (which works
wonders for CART:PR and NFS2).

I set the sensitivity to 100% each to test it and I need to depress the
brake fully to get the engine speed down to idle in neutral! I don't seem to
have a choice in selecting the controller in F1RS--it already says wheel and
cannot be changed.

I was about to try using the separate mode for the pedals, but you advise
against that...any other suggestions as to why only this game seems to react
"upside down" (and yes, I have tried it on other tracks than Melbourne
:-) ).

Thanks again to anyone who can help.

Marc.

Thanks for your reply...

I am already using the ProPanel as I said in my original message.  Just to
be sure, I checked the regular control panel and rudders are not checked.

If I set both braking and accel. to 100%, I must depress the brake all the
way to get the engine to idle at 1600 r.p.m.  It does seem like something is
registering backwards or upside down, yet the calibration and test modes
work perfectly in the Pro Panel and the pedals respond "normally" in all
other games.  By the way, the steering seems fine set at 100%.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Marc.

CPR allows you to set the null zone manually, so I assume patching the
Direct input dll will do nothing.

You're definitely having controller problems.  You might try this.  Before
you enter the calibration screen, very slightly depress your accelerator and
brake.  When you calibrate, don't let them come all the way back up.  Then
when you drive in the game and release a pedal completely, it should
register as all of the way off.

One other thing.  Have you installed the latest patch, which is 1.07?  Also,
I've read of other people having control problems when they applied the nocd
patch.

--
Kevin
(Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

Rob

[fbs]

This sounds exactly like the problems I experirenced with the unpatched
game. I hesitate to suggest it but neverless; are you sure you have the
a properly patched V1.07?

--
Suck The Goat

No...of course not as that would ruin everything else too.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

How does one tell which version they are running?  I applied the patch and
the main .exe was updated to that day's date, but I have not discovered
where the "Help-->About" button is!!

None of those suggestions made any difference to my problem,
unfortunately...but thanks for trying.