rec.autos.simulators

I want to buy either a Nintendo 64 or a Playstation.  The deciding
factor is which system has the best driving game.  I've seen ads for GP
for playstation and that looks like the perfect game for me.  Is there a
similar game for Nintendo?  If so, which one is better?

I want to buy either a Nintendo 64 or a Playstation.  The deciding
factor is which system has the best driving game.  I've seen ads for GP
for playstation and that looks like the perfect game for me.  Is there a
similar game for Nintendo?  If so, which one is better?

There is SEVERAL great racing games for the Playstation.  All the Need4Speed
series, Gran Turismo (<-- You should buy the PSX only for that), Nascar
Racing by Papyrus, Formula1:97 by Psygnosis (even the first version is
great).

Nintendo has zero, nadda, zip interest in racing games. They lack of good
racing physics and depth of game. Darn the best racing game I saw for ALL
the Nintendo platforms (NES, GameBoy, SNES, N64) is RC-ProAM around 1988.
Heck after it's MarioKart (the only thing that makes me run ANY NES
platform).  So don't bother for the N64 if you are into racing games.

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

The list of driving games that hold the interest of this PC-biased
guy on the PSX is large:
V-Rally
Formula 1 '97
Gran Turismo
Need for Speed III
Porsche Challenge
TOCA Touring Cars

And the soon to be released Colin McRae Rally should also be
a winner.

On the Nintendo systems there is... er... um... some guy
named Mario driving a toy cart around.

No comparison.  Play Station and some form of analog controller.
The Dual Shock controller is surprisingly good, and compatible
with at least GT, NFS3 and F197

: I want to buy either a Nintendo 64 or a Playstation.  The deciding
: factor is which system has the best driving game.  I've seen ads for GP
: for playstation and that looks like the perfect game for me.  Is there a
: similar game for Nintendo?  If so, which one is better?
:
:

(actually, as a side noite, my boss took this home, played it, and expressed
the opinion it's all to typical of Computer attempts at driving at high speed.
Simply not realistic.
- in a previous life;)  he was a professional racing driver, and his current
car in a race-prepared porsche. I dare saw that makes him more qualified than
most of us to make a comment on the handling realism in GT.

Not that i find it bad or anything- i do enjoy the game. I'm just begining to
find the racing part - well.. a little ho-hum, actually.  

Granted, but i can guarantee you that no one here is using a PSX to access
r.a.s.

I'm not advocating PC over PSX- they have seperate areas which both are better
at- and one of them is driving sims.

again, see above.

N64 is staying perenial doggy-doo, because Nintendo grossly underestimated who
the hell the console targetmarket is today.

Question is why anyone hasn't wacked a riva128 into a Notebook...

No kidding. What's his name? Where did he race? IMSA, SCCA?

Garret

:
: Actually i have plenty of positive things to say. Expecially on the issue of
: Console V PC. I've grown to appreciate the two as quite seperate fields.  
: Never the less, respective of the merits of either system, if you arelooking
: for a simulation, a console - PSX or N64 is not the right purchase.
: I love my PSX - it's great for action games, Bushido Blade, Time Crisis- etc.
: But despite the  plethora of driving games for PSX, i've only found one which
: has managed to hold my interest- GT.
:
Look at the subject of the message.  The original post asked merely
"which console has the best driving GAMES".  I extended this discussion
to suggest that some of the more recent driving games on the PSX blur
the line between arcade racers like Rage Racer and full-on sims like
GP2 etc.  And I still maintain that a PSX is money well spent for
the more serious "sim"-oriented racer.  Especially so if this person
doesn't own a bleeding-edge PC.
:
 (actually, as a side note, my boss took this home, played it, and expressed
: the opinion it's all to typical of Computer attempts at driving at high
: speed.
: Simply not realistic. - in a previous life;)  he was a professional
: racing driver, and his current car is a race-prepared porsche. I dare
: say that makes him more qualified than
: most of us to make a comment on the handling realism in GT.
:
But you haven't said what he thinks of PC sims... so it's moot.
And if we are going to start "name dropping", in my previous and
current life, I competed in a variety of rallies and autocrosses
(Solo 1 and Solo 2) in a modified Corolla (Levin) GT-S.  If I
select the Toyota AE-86 Levin from the used cars in GT, then start
modifying it, it "feels" right based on my experience.  No game,
on a PC, PSX, or SGI is going to capture the "seat of the pants"
aspect of driving, but GT does a good job, as does NFS3 to some
extent.  *All*  sims have their compromises.

(re: V-Rally):
:
: Hmm, i'd have to go with the way the cars handle and the simply ludicrious,
: 1mm off the tarmac/dirt and your car jumps into a fit of spins. Silly
: arcade-style time countdown. and hmmm, it hasn't grasped the Interest of
: either of the Europress rally games for PC.
:
1. I hope you were using an analog controller and were playing
on the highest level - makes a big difference. 2. The cars only
jump if you hit something fairly solid.  I can easily motor
down the embankment on the inside of a hairpin and back up the
other side.  The lame Europress offerings are much worse in
this respect.  Touch a tuft of grass and you barrel roll down
the road in Network Q.  Touch another car in IRC and you spin
like you're on a giant trackball.  Touch the verge in IRC and you
do gymnastic somersaults (and the view switches out to the outside
view).  The cars in Network Q and IRC exhibit very little if any
trailing throttle oversteer, and the power bogs down unrealistically
coming out of the corners.  V-Rally was the top-selling racing
game in Europe and there are dozens of web pages from "fans".
I have found exactly *one* web page for Network Q and IRC.
Having nothing else to play on my notebook, I sometimes boot
up Network Q, but V-Rally is much more enjoyable to this
ex-rally guy.  But your argument is weak.  For me, V-Rally
does a much better job of putting me in a rally car, and
judging by the numbers, a lot of other people agree.  Still,
I'm sure I will shelve it when Colin McRae rally comes along,
low-res PSX or high-res PC... whatever.
:
: Granted, but i can guarantee you that no one here is using a PSX to access
: r.a.s.

And I can guarantee you that many people are accessing R.A.S.
using notebook (non-3d) computers, 486s, university-owned computers etc.
To step up to a computer that will run today's sims means big $$$ for
a lot of these people.  The PSX kills my P166 notebook in terms of
graphics, and my notebook was king of the hill half a year ago.
:
: I'm not advocating PC over PSX- they have seperate areas which both
: are better at- and one of them is driving sims.
:
I think, with the recent batch of titles, the PSX *is* a serious
player in the sim market.
To me a sim has to be immersive, give me a sense of speed, make me
feel like I am driving a car, offer me the thrill of racing etc.
Setups are secondary, as I rarely tinkered with my rally and autocross
cars.  Just set them and forgot them.  On their most difficult
settings, the three PSX games that I mention (GT, NFS3, V-Rally)
satisfy all of these requirements.  Certainly the physics models
are as accurate as ICR2, GP2, F1RS etc.  All of these "big" sims
also make concessions to simplification, be it "canned spins",
no 3-D physics or whatever.  All I ask for is a car that seems to
do what it should.  If a "sim" gives me a FWD car (stiffly sprung)
that understeers under power and oversteers on trailing throttle,
then they've got me hooked.  Give me a powerful 4WD car that "hops"
under power out of a corner, and things are really getting good.

: >It has excellent graphics for a PSX game.  The mountain course
: >"feels" alot like the mountains around where I currently live
: >(Swiss Alps) and the pursuit mode is something new.  Of course
: >the PC version will be better, but we weren't discussing PCs.
:
: again, see above.

I'm sure when the PC version comes out, it will be gorgeous.
But the PSX version is very immersive and I don't miss the
higher resolution or cheesy "no-hands" steering wheel of a
***pit view.  When I'm driving hard, I'm on top of my steering
wheel.  I've got upright shell-seats that get me up close and
personal with the windshield, as all rally cars do.  You can't
drive from the laid back position that people think is sporty.
So all I see is what's outside the windshield.  Save for a little
bit of the hood, it's just road... road that is flying by at
a good clip.  You know how I notice the speed?  It's the
relative motion of the gravel right at the front of my
car, which I notice in my peripheral vision.  Sort of like
those universally panned "bumper cam" views.  So one of the
biggest criticisms of PSX games (no***pit view) is, to me,
without substance.

: >Remember, the original question was about consoles...
: >I'm very happy that you have a killer PC with 3dfx.  I'd
: >love it if someone would make a 3dfx PCMCIA card, because
: >there are no docking stations for my notebook with PCI
: >slots.  Given the choice between buying a PC for games
: >and a Playstation, guess where my money is going?  See,
: >I'd like to have some money left over for mountain biking,
: >snowboarding, travelling and other things that I do besides
: >play games.
:
: Question is why anyone hasn't wacked a riva128 into a Notebook...

Believe me, it has been asked many times.  But have you seen
the form factor of a typical notebook motherboard?  No space.
Or how about a PCMCIA card?  Not enough room.  Then there is
the problem of heat, which is a big notebook killer, and
power consumption, which is the other gold standard for notebooks.
3D chipsets like Voodoo are too big, too hot and too power
hungry for a notebook.  In the new Sony and IBM notebooks we
are just starting to see on-board 3D accelerators, but
they are nowhere near the performance of even a first
generation PCI 3D card.
:
Stephen