rec.autos.simulators

Nascar 4

ymenar

Nascar 4

by ymenar » Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:08:37


> I'm not saying that N4 doesn't have all these new physics, I'm just saying
> that it's a bit wasted on the ovals.

Hello!!! This is _Winston Cup_ racing.  What do you want Papyrus to do?
Invent some fantasy road course to satisfy your little needs?  There is
thousands of people who enjoy oval racing, you just don't get it, do you?

So tell me, what should had Papyrus done to create something "new"?

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

markgam

Nascar 4

by markgam » Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:11:02

Oh my gosh, did I make a major faux pas in that post! I should of course
have prefaced my opinions with the disclaimer "NONE OF THESE OPINIONS
HAVE BEEN PREAPPROVED BY YMENARD AND THEREFORE ARE PROBABLY WRONG AND
ARE THE RESULT OF MY OWN LITTLE NEEDS".

Is that better?




> > I'm not saying that N4 doesn't have all these new physics, I'm just
saying
> > that it's a bit wasted on the ovals.

> Hello!!! This is _Winston Cup_ racing.  What do you want Papyrus to
do?
> Invent some fantasy road course to satisfy your little needs?  There
is
> thousands of people who enjoy oval racing, you just don't get it, do
you?

> So tell me, what should had Papyrus done to create something "new"?

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise
how
> hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

--

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

ymenar

Nascar 4

by ymenar » Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:24:38


> Oh my gosh, did I make a major faux pas in that post! I should of course
> have prefaced my opinions with the disclaimer "NONE OF THESE OPINIONS
> HAVE BEEN PREAPPROVED BY YMENARD AND THEREFORE ARE PROBABLY
> WRONG AND ARE THE RESULT OF MY OWN LITTLE NEEDS".

> Is that better?

<yawn>  That'a a nice escape route you tried there.

Your whining about the fact that it's not "new" anymore, that the casual
gamers can't appreciate oval racing.  So, what should have they added to
create something new, unique in N4???? Hello!

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

markgam

Nascar 4

by markgam » Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:16:05

Whining? I was using sarcasm ;) You *were* being a little heavy-handed
there, IMHO. And since I did buy my retail copy of N4 I believe the
r.a.s. readership can forgive me expressing my opinions, since they are
based on several hours of time on the sim. BTW, I am not insinuating
that you don't have N4; I just wanted to make clear that I am basing my
opinions on actual experience with the sim, not hearsay.

I did not say (or did not mean to imply) that casual gamers can't
appreciate oval racing. I'm a casual racer and I like oval racing. And
I've owned and played all the Papyrus sims from NASCAR 1 to the present.
And also ICR2 and GPL. My point (several posts ago) was that there was a
lot of hype concerning the use of the GPL game engine in N4, but for
most oval racing the nuances of the GPL engine are of little matter to
the casual gamer, in this case being me. That's just my opinion. You
have your opinion, I have mine.

What I would have liked to see in N4 was to NOT lose the in-race save.
The strategy involved in running full length races is lost if I can't
save the race, since having 2-3 hours free is very difficult for me.
This wasn't really a problem in GPL, since without pitstops the races
end up as sprints anyway.

And yes, I would have liked Papyrus to include some of the truck and
Busch tracks, instead of making us pay extra for them later.

Finally, I do have a complaint about turn 2 at Sears Point. Doesn't it
seem like they lowered the hill a bit?

--

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

Vintoo

Nascar 4

by Vintoo » Sun, 11 Feb 2001 04:29:11

The sears hill looks alright to me. I've never driven it though, only seen
it on TV. Have you driven it or seen it in real life?


> Whining? I was using sarcasm ;) You *were* being a little heavy-handed
> there, IMHO. And since I did buy my retail copy of N4 I believe the
> r.a.s. readership can forgive me expressing my opinions, since they are
> based on several hours of time on the sim. BTW, I am not insinuating
> that you don't have N4; I just wanted to make clear that I am basing my
> opinions on actual experience with the sim, not hearsay.

> I did not say (or did not mean to imply) that casual gamers can't
> appreciate oval racing. I'm a casual racer and I like oval racing. And
> I've owned and played all the Papyrus sims from NASCAR 1 to the present.
> And also ICR2 and GPL. My point (several posts ago) was that there was a
> lot of hype concerning the use of the GPL game engine in N4, but for
> most oval racing the nuances of the GPL engine are of little matter to
> the casual gamer, in this case being me. That's just my opinion. You
> have your opinion, I have mine.

> What I would have liked to see in N4 was to NOT lose the in-race save.
> The strategy involved in running full length races is lost if I can't
> save the race, since having 2-3 hours free is very difficult for me.
> This wasn't really a problem in GPL, since without pitstops the races
> end up as sprints anyway.

> And yes, I would have liked Papyrus to include some of the truck and
> Busch tracks, instead of making us pay extra for them later.

> Finally, I do have a complaint about turn 2 at Sears Point. Doesn't it
> seem like they lowered the hill a bit?

> > <yawn>  That'a a nice escape route you tried there.

> > Your whining about the fact that it's not "new" anymore, that the
> casual
> > gamers can't appreciate oval racing.  So, what should have they added
> to
> > create something new, unique in N4???? Hello!

> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> > -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise
> how
> > hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

> --

> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

markgam

Nascar 4

by markgam » Sun, 11 Feb 2001 05:39:18

Saw it once on a visit to the track. It was a few years ago, but I remember
it seeming steeper. Did Bruton Smith mess with the hills, too?? ;-)


Alk

Nascar 4

by Alk » Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:28:18


N4 is about ovals... you want road courses, get GPL, it's still as good
today as it was 3 years ago... maybe better!

Mike Donnelly J

Nascar 4

by Mike Donnelly J » Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:24:53


> Heavens, no. GP3, except for the weather effects, is just an evolutionary
> step from GP2.

> I'm not saying that N4 doesn't have all these new physics, I'm just saying
> that it's a bit wasted on the ovals. For the more casual player (and that is

Wasted on the ovals?  I assure you Mr France will disagree with that.  His
accountants will most definitely disagree.  Millions of race fans in America
will disagree.  Hundreds of thousands of sim racers will disagree (although they
disagree on so much that is probably the biggest understatement of all), and the
accountants at Sierra will most definitely assure you it is not a waste.

What NASCAR, Sierra, Papyrus, every sponsor/driver/crew member and TV
CEO/producer/marketer will tell you is that NASCAR Winston Cup racing sells.
The better it's done, the better it sells.  By virtue (if you want to call it
that) of the power of the greenback - and don't underestimate that power, it is
certain that it isn't a waste.

Incidently two of the three races that draw the least amount of attention on the
Winston Cup circuit happen to be the road courses at Sears Point and Watkins
Glen.  Rather telling that they can't draw the interest while the rest of the
season gets a very good return on the investment.

As a personal opinion, I've long had GPL and always lamented that the physics
were 'wasted' on the road courses.  From a technical standpoint, it's much more
obvious that the physics were closer to reality in GPL vs N2/3, and it is much
more of a challenge to drive, but it also took a lot more processing power which
is why we of the oval community and our relatively large fields had to wait to
get the physical model until this time.

I'm certainly glad the day finally arrived for me to enjoy the most accurate
physics model available (my isn't that an ever changing title) for my beloved
ovals.

My opinion certainly, but if you note one thing about Papyrus it's that they
dropped CART (with it's road course/ street course / oval mix) and concentrated
on NASCAR.  Business decision, pure and simple.

I'd say about 70% of what I've learned about sim racing has been rendered
useless by the new model.  Mostly because the AI isn't nearly as predictable as
it used to be, the rest because the car doesn't behave like the old ones did.
There is definitely plenty to learn for those who want to take the time out to
learn.

Simple solution.  Ditch the wife and kids...  Just kidding.  That does pose a
problem and I'm afraid that's something that they might have to address...

Ok, not so simple.

According to one of my co-workers (who used to work for Roger), he can be a bit
of a tyrant to work for.  As I don't do beer, I'll take you up on a virtual Dr.
Pepper.

Lucky dog for getting to go there.  That was something to see even on replays.
And knowing that Geoff survived.  I'm glad it was Geoff in that truck and not
his son.  I don't know if Geoff would have forgave himself had it been his son
and he didn't make it.

Oh, my wish list for N5 will include the correct qualifying format for the 500;
a method of 'forcing' a grid (like for setting the 125s/ the Shootout/ the
Winston) and a paint kit that will allow you to rotate the stamps...

I'd reccomend the release of the paint kit about 2/3 weeks prior to the release
of N5 to give folks time to do paintjobs while waiting for it to ship.  - Small
peeve there.

Mike Donnelly J

Nascar 4

by Mike Donnelly J » Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:26:24


> Saw it once on a visit to the track. It was a few years ago, but I remember
> it seeming steeper. Did Bruton Smith mess with the hills, too?? ;-)

I think so.  I remember hearing that during the redesign they wanted to make
sure you could see just about the entire track from most vantage points.  In
that respect the redesign was a success.
Eldre

Nascar 4

by Eldre » Tue, 13 Feb 2001 22:16:30


writes:

Really?  I didn't know that.  I like Bristol AND Martinsville.  I also (sorta)
like Nurburgring.
I don't have N4 yet, but I'll probably buy it when the hype(and thus, price)
come down...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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