rec.autos.simulators

Dean the only solution is to make a special addition of CPR for Alison that
appears to be the only way you can make her happy and so what if she is only
one (1) person   its all about customer service

I'd settle for one that had a hint of actual AI.  Guess that's too much
to ask for though...

--
Eric T. Busch

http://ebusch.akorn.net

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Remember the patch? That is one of the major problems that are being
addressed, the AI, and one of the reasons why it is being addressed is
because Dean (The guy from Microsoft) spent the time on here to find out
what problems needed to be addressed in the patch. And there is no dening
there are problem that need to be addressed. Maybe they should have never
had a guy on here to help anyone.
The point is Dean came hear and basically said this:

" im from MS, I helped designed this game, I am here to help sort through
the problems and determine what is a common problem and what is a issolated
problem We are going to fix the common ones with this patch that we are
designing and we will try to help you out with the not so comon problems
personally."

I guess that not enough

Some of you need to open your eyes and see what kind of service was being
provided and quit looking for some hidden agenda
Hmm I wonder why Dean left this news group?

My point was (I think I've said this quite a few times now) that they
had no business releasing the game with the AI in its current state.
You shouldn't release a game that requires a patch to make it playable.
That's what beta testers are for...

--
Eric T. Busch

http://ebusch.akorn.net

So what they are saying is that they cant even know whats wrong with the AI.
Still, did they really watched some racing on TV to make the AI ? Or did
they made it "less than descent, but go race on the zone so that we dont
complain on the AI".
Well,  IMHO always

Fran?ois Mnard,

With great respect,
May the downforce be with you,
Good race at the Brickyard,  (-o-)

ymenard on NROS, sponsored by
http://www.awpss.com/
SimRacing director, AWPSS

- *Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking) * -
- *Excuse me for my provocative reply's and posts <g> * -

CART PR was written by Terminal Reality. I think 7 or 8 people worked on the
core functions of the game. Papyrus has over 100 employees. I see too many
accusations on this newsgroup without any facts. please try to back up your
statements with facts and not assumptions.

Thanks
John

+AD4-
+AD4APg-
+AD4APgBb-damn it, I wish someone would stop me+AF0-
+AD4APg-If the developers of CPR needed to ask us what was wrong with the
+AD4APg-AI, then I don't think I want them working on the patch.  That's just
+AD4APg-too scary of a thought.
+AD4APgBb-sorry, this just had to happen.  I hope I can be forgiven.+AF0-
+AD4-
+AD4-If I remember, was Dean telling us to help him with the AI, and that any
+AD4-info would be helpfull ?? I dont remember but I laughed really hard when I
+AD4-read it.  So Microsoft, with all their money and power, cant even make a
+AD4-descent AI for a racing game, thing that little companies like Papyrus can
+AD4-do VERY good (and even more Software Allies, who IMHO made the best AI ever
+AD4-with SODA Off-Road racing).  And they are even telling us +ACI-We didn't took
+AD4-much time to make the AI, so please help me, our AI programmers arent good.
+AD4-So buy the product, go race on the zone (so that we shut our mouth) and
help
+AD4-us with the AI.+ACI-
+AD4-
+AD4-So what they are saying is that they cant even know whats wrong with the
AI.
+AD4-Still, did they really watched some racing on TV to make the AI ? Or did
+AD4-they made it +ACI-less than descent, but go race on the zone so that we dont
+AD4-complain on the AI+ACI-.
+AD4-Well,  IMHO always
+AD4-
+AD4-Fran+AOc-ois M+AOk-nard,
+AD4-
+AD4-With great respect,
+AD4-May the downforce be with you,
+AD4-Good race at the Brickyard,  (-o-)
+AD4-
+AD4-ymenard on NROS, sponsored by
+AD4-http://www.awpss.com/
+AD4-SimRacing director, AWPSS
+AD4-
+AD4-- +ACo-Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking) +ACo- -
+AD4-- +ACo-Excuse me for my provocative reply's and posts +ADw-g+AD4- +ACo- -
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-

% Remember the patch? That is one of the major problems that are being
% addressed, the AI, and one of the reasons why it is being addressed is
% because Dean (The guy from Microsoft) spent the time on here to find out
% what problems needed to be addressed in the patch. And there is no dening
% there are problem that need to be addressed. Maybe they should have never
% had a guy on here to help anyone.

[damn it, I wish someone would stop me]

If the developers of CPR needed to ask us what was wrong with the
AI, then I don't think I want them working on the patch.  That's just
too scary of a thought.

However, I hope you meant the "other" fixes they are working on.  Though
frame rate should have been obvious too.

[sorry, this just had to happen.  I hope I can be forgiven.]
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

It's probably fair to count number of engineers on a product when
comparing engineering features. And I can assure you Papyrus hasn't
got 100 of those.

Please try to back up your statements with facts and not assumptions. :-)

---Jim

Oops, Pie in the face :-)
I messed up. I could have sworn it was 100. I started searching and I
couldn't find the number for the life of me+ACE- Then finally I found it on
Papyrus's site under the press release section. The actual number is 75
employees. When I say 7 or 8 people worked on TRI's game I mean 7 or 8
people from TRI in engineering, level design, programming, art, marketing,
etc. I know Microsoft did the work on the track videos and the racing school
but I'm not sure how many worked on those functions. Here is where I got 75
for Papyrus:

+ACI-Papyrus Design Group is a software development division of Sierra On-line,
Inc.. Developers of the most compelling software-based racing experiences
possible, Papyrus' best-selling products include the NASCAR+AK4- Racing and
IndyCar+AK4- Racing lines. Upcoming titles include SODA Off-Road Racing and
Grand Prix Legends. Winners of 4 Software Publishers Association CODIE
awards, Papyrus has a ten-year reputation for superior use of physics and
realism in their products. Located in Watertown, Massachusetts, Papyrus
employs 75 artists, engineers and marketing staff. The company's website is
located at www.sierra.com/papyrus +ACI-

I correct my mistake and back it up with fact, or at least what is
publically reported by Papyrus to the press.

Could you tell me what the facts are regarding how many people Papyrus has
working on their projects since you seem to know?

Thanks
John

TRI is a developer and MSFT is publishing, right? If so, how much
marketing does TRI need to do?

75 sounds about right.

RTFC (redits) :-)

Seriously, Engineering is typically 3-5 engineers "dedicated" to a
title, along with a separate tools group. Art depends on the project,
"level design" is just art (track design in this case). Testing varies
from very low numbers at the start/middle of a project and very high
numbers as Alpha, Beta, and Final Candidate CDs begin to appear.

*****
But the real point isn't the numbers, it's the quality of the final
output. If TRI soundly thumped Papyrus in terms of product output, it
wouldn't matter whether TRI was the initials of one Thomas Rivest
Ignacious who did all the work, or was the company name of a horde of
1000 programmers, artists, and marketeers. Would a given game be any
less/more enjoyable because the identical product was produced by 1 or
100 people?
*****

---Jim