rec.autos.simulators

by **Jim Moor** » Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:00:00

I trust you mean "an" American ego rather than "the." I love your insight and
your humor on this forum. However, I don't want to believe that you are a bigot
and would characterize the attitude of an individual as that of an entire
nation.

No one wins these pissing matches. Please let it end here.

Jim

> Yes........sure we would. Once again the American ego leaps to the
> immediate conclusion that their lot in life has been to act as saviour of
> oppressed nations since the pilgrims sat down and had roast turkey for lunch
> before slaughtering their Indian hosts.

> Thanks for reminding us of that.

> >Without that country, you'd be speaking Japanese, mate.

by **schwab** » Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:00:00

hehe... yes, Bruce, I am American, but like nearly all countries, plenty
of contradictions can be found throughout history...

--Dave

> Yes........sure we would. Once again the American ego leaps to the
> immediate conclusion that their lot in life has been to act as saviour of
> oppressed nations since the pilgrims sat down and had roast turkey for lunch
> before slaughtering their Indian hosts.

> Thanks for reminding us of that.

> >Without that country, you'd be speaking Japanese, mate.

--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

by **Paul Jone** » Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:00:00

So then, in your estimation, copying the entire package minus, say, the best laps
page would be okay as long as you didn't sell it. I fail to see the ethical
difference between pirating some of a product and pirating all of it.
Legally, of course, they own the copyright.
Incidently, putting together the tracks is one of the most time consuming and
labour intensive bit of releasing a sim - look at the number of location and
artwork staff in the credits of GPL and other sims. Also I would imagine that to
use of the tracks they would have had to pay a licence fee.
Cheers,
Paul

> >>...Regardless... this isn't 'stealing'. You're not playing the game
> >>as it was sold on the retail shelf. You're using a hacked likeness of one
> >>of the 'levels' contained therein.

> > So do you really think that its not stealing if you only take a PART of
> > someone else's work and effort?

> "Taking it"? No.

> > It doesn't matter that it's not the
> > complete game... some programmer took the time to put that track together,
> > and should be compensated for his/her work.

> I agree. I don't think that buying a $40 game is the solution to
> obtaining _a track_ to race on another piece of software purchased from
> this same company, though.

> > It doesn't matter if it's been
> > hacked or not...you're still using part of their copyrighted creation. For
> > more on this, see countless lawsuits due to sampling in the music industry.

> The groups doing the sampling are also _reselling_ the music the created
> using a previously revorded song. There's a difference.

> If someone ripped all of the tracks out of NASCAR/99, etc. and tried
> peddling it on the web for $10 or something, then there definitely would
> be an problem.

> Preventing redistribution of the files for private use is nonsense.

> -j.c.h.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Yes........sure we would. Once again the American ego leaps to the
immediate conclusion that their lot in life has been to act as saviour of
oppressed nations since the pilgrims sat down and had roast turkey for lunch
before slaughtering their Indian hosts.

Thanks for reminding us of that.

>Without that country, you'd be speaking Japanese, mate.

by **Mark C Dod** » Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I reckopn Australia has to be the worst place in the world for Piracy. I think for
every PCX titled sold there are probably four copies.

> > I know I should buy the stuff online
> > - but to me that raises other questions about supporting local
> > industry (and not wanting to support those countries whose economies
> > rely on selling arms to the third world - I've just finished reading
> > John Pilger's excellent Hidden Agendas <g>).

> I don't think that Papyrus are involved in the arms trade. I also doubt that any
> of the trivial amount of money that you spend on buying N2/ICR2/N99 would end up
> any where the arms trade - don't tar the whole of the US and UK with the same
> brush. Like Australia doesn't export arms and related equipment! Besides you
> have already spent money on GPL a good proportion of which has wound up in US
> hands.
> You may not accept the above arguments and may wish to boycott the makers of the
> finest simulation software in the world - fine - you only m***alternative is
> to not race on these new tracks. Remember the old adage "Two wrongs do not make
> a right". Punishing Papyrus for the sins of the arms trade through piracy
> doesn't exactly seem just to me. Besides why does it matter when this excellant
> software was developed? You are happy to benefit from the work that the crew at
> the Pits do for nothing (and they come from non-Australian arms exporting
> countries) but you baulk at rewarding the large amounts of effort put in by
> essentially similarly motivated people (the staff at Papyrus). Let's apply
> Immanual Kant's ethical formula to this one - "how would it be if everyone did
> this?" - easy, Papyrus would go broke and GPL would be the last quality
> simulation for quite some time.
> Ho, hum.....buy it or wait until an Australian company develop a simulation of
> equivalent quality, which, if everyone were to apply your morality about
> supporting local industry, will fail in the market place because Australia's
> market is not big enough to support such a niche product.
> Cheers,
> Paul

by **5th Docto** » Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Sure, lets see...
threre's Dubai, Phoenix, Louden, Homestead, Hickory.
I think I'm forgettin one. OH well, once you purchase the needed tracks on
CD then you can convert all of them.
Then remind me which one I forgot.

by **Don Hanco** » Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>I am saying that using the track files from a Papyrus product in
>conjunction with a Papyrus product that you've already purchased should
>have no remifications whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I'd rather see
>Papy release the addon tracks themselves. See an about post on this
>thread to the likeness of Quake and it's hundreds of levels available... a
>few of them are exact models of other games in the Quake/Doom series.

>Isn't this kind of a blatantly obvious comparison?

iD has INTENTIONALLY made making levels an OPEN standard.
Papyrus has INTENTIONALLY NOT allowed for tracks to be made. They've
made it OBVIOUS that they don't want tracks from one program running
on another (still don't understand why they don't offer track addons,
but...). Therefore your comparison is invalid.

If you already own them, you wouldn't have to buy them. If
you don't - buy 'em used off the games.marketplace NG. Otherwise,
it's against the license - regardless of your personal opinion.
"Gunner"

by **Randy Cassid** » Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:00:00

> I am saying that using the track files from a Papyrus product in
> conjunction with a Papyrus product that you've already purchased
should
> have no remifications whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I'd rather
see
> Papy release the addon tracks themselves. See an about post on this
> thread to the likeness of Quake and it's hundreds of levels
available... a
> few of them are exact models of other games in the Quake/Doom series.

> Isn't this kind of a blatantly obvious comparison?

Sure, if you don't look very deeply.

The Quake levels are entirely the property of the developer and/or
publisher. They're free to do whatever the heck they'd like with them.
Have you ever bothered to read the credits and/or copyright statements
in one of our games (or the manual)? Every single name, mark, or
likeness of a track, billboard, sponsor, driver, team, etc. is under
license from some individual or business entity. Whether or not we'd
"mind" that you would like to mix and match pieces of our different
products is irrelevant. Whether our contracts with our licensors allow
us to use _their_ property in this manner, and how much it would cost
us are relevant. I have no clue about the former, but I can assure you
the latter would not be $0.

Randy

by **Paul Jone** » Fri, 02 Apr 1999 04:00:00

The modern Watkins Glen,
Cheers,
Paul

> Sure, lets see...
> threre's Dubai, Phoenix, Louden, Homestead, Hickory.
> I think I'm forgettin one. OH well, once you purchase the needed tracks on
> CD then you can convert all of them.
> Then remind me which one I forgot.

rec.autos.simulators

Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?

Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?

Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?

Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?

Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?

Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?

Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?

Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?

Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?

Can someone post the new tracks for GPL?