rec.autos.simulators

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

MG

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by MG » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:39:58

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
It has come to light in a recent interview that Forza Motorsport,
Microsofts direct *** on Sonys Gran Turismo castle of amazement,
runs at a measly 20 frames per second: an unthinkably slow refresh
rate.

Indeed, according to Michael Johnson, product manager at Microsoft,
although only 20 frames will be achieved, because of the
anti-aliasing and other advances, controlling the car recreates the
experience as if it were 180 frames per second, so the scribes at
Gamerfeed report. Quite.

Johnson, who (did we mention this already?) is the product manager for
Forza at Microsoft, claims that the game offers much more detailed
control than anything that has been seen before.

As do you, we look forward to seeing the the anti-aliasing and other
advances that makes 180 frames out of 20. Really, we do.
----

Look's like they've gone overboard with the eye-candy.

Fernando Deutsc

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by Fernando Deutsc » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:41:22

Only if they were using techniques like motion blur for example, but is not
mentioned.


Steve Simpso

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by Steve Simpso » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 06:31:02

Project Gotham ran at 60fps and it was far easier to see oncoming corners
obstacles etc and control the car than it was in Project Gotham 2 which ran
at 30fps.

A lot of racing games are being made for people who like looking at nice
screenshots these days.  I think some of these game developers brains must
only update 20 times per second.

Alan Bernard

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by Alan Bernard » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:42:07


I'm not worried in the least.  You sure you aren't just looking for a
response on this, acting like a kind of newbie-troll?  Your message sounds
suspiciously trollish.

I'm just curious about this, since I run a class on how to be a troll.  If
you need some pointers, go to

www.beatrolltoday.com    :)

Alanb

MG

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by MG » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:56:55





>> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>> It has come to light in a recent interview that Forza Motorsport,
>> Microsoft's direct *** on Sony's Gran Turismo castle of amazement,
>> runs at a measly 20 frames per second: an unthinkably slow refresh
>> rate.

>> Indeed, according to Michael Johnson, product manager at Microsoft,
>> although only 20 frames will be achieved, ".because of the
>> anti-aliasing and other advances, controlling the car recreates the
>> experience as if it were 180 frames per second," so the scribes at
>> Gamerfeed report. Quite.

>> Johnson, who (did we mention this already?) is the product manager for
>> Forza at Microsoft, claims that ". the game offers much more detailed
>> control than anything that has been seen before."

>> As do you, we look forward to seeing the "the anti-aliasing and other
>> advances" that makes 180 frames out of 20. Really, we do.
>> ----

>> Look's like they've gone overboard with the eye-candy.

>I'm not worried in the least.  You sure you aren't just looking for a
>response on this, acting like a kind of newbie-troll?  Your message sounds
>suspiciously trollish.

>I'm just curious about this, since I run a class on how to be a troll.  If
>you need some pointers, go to

>www.beatrolltoday.com    :)

>Alanb

Well, shoot the messenger if you like, but if Forza is sacrificing
framerate at the expense of graphics it ain't good news. 20 FPS is
pathetic and their commitment to eye-candy makes me wonder what their
commitment to underlying car-physics is.

I'm hoping for a Gran Turismo killer as much as anyone, but the
framerate compromise doesn't give me hope.

Alan Bernard

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by Alan Bernard » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:56:05






>>> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>>> It has come to light in a recent interview that Forza Motorsport,
>>> Microsoft's direct *** on Sony's Gran Turismo castle of amazement,
>>> runs at a measly 20 frames per second: an unthinkably slow refresh
>>> rate.

>>> Indeed, according to Michael Johnson, product manager at Microsoft,
>>> although only 20 frames will be achieved, ".because of the
>>> anti-aliasing and other advances, controlling the car recreates the
>>> experience as if it were 180 frames per second," so the scribes at
>>> Gamerfeed report. Quite.

>>> Johnson, who (did we mention this already?) is the product manager for
>>> Forza at Microsoft, claims that ". the game offers much more detailed
>>> control than anything that has been seen before."

>>> As do you, we look forward to seeing the "the anti-aliasing and other
>>> advances" that makes 180 frames out of 20. Really, we do.
>>> ----

>>> Look's like they've gone overboard with the eye-candy.

>>I'm not worried in the least.  You sure you aren't just looking for a
>>response on this, acting like a kind of newbie-troll?  Your message sounds
>>suspiciously trollish.

>>I'm just curious about this, since I run a class on how to be a troll.  If
>>you need some pointers, go to

>>www.beatrolltoday.com    :)

>>Alanb

> Well, shoot the messenger if you like, but if Forza is sacrificing
> framerate at the expense of graphics it ain't good news. 20 FPS is
> pathetic and their commitment to eye-candy makes me wonder what their
> commitment to underlying car-physics is.

> I'm hoping for a Gran Turismo killer as much as anyone, but the
> framerate compromise doesn't give me hope.

It's a good thing to never get your hopes up too high.  Still, the game is a
few months from release so anything can happen.  Having a game run at 20fps
may mean nothing.  MS is not going to release a game, a greatly anticipated
game, in which the frames make the game unplayable or not as good as it
could be.

There's got to be a reason.  And while there are reasons, there will always
be those who aren't happy unless they are complaining about things, whether
they know squat about the issue or not.

Alanb

Dav

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by Dav » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:11:13

Apparently the 20 FPS was a typo, it is actually 30 FPS:
http://microsoft.gamerfeed.com/gf/news/7546/

Also, check out the physics demonstration (and the movie) on this
puppy, "Enthusia".  Very impressive!

http://www.enthusia-racing.com/eng/movie.html

Steve Simpso

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by Steve Simpso » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:42:17

Well I know pretty much everything there is to know about framerates (I'm a
video professional by trade)

I believe that sacrificing the 60fps frame rate is one of the worst mistakes
a producer of a racing game can make.  It's been shown time and again in the
past that 30fps racers never go on to be classics on consoles no matter how
good they are in other departments.  Say what you want about the Gran
Turismo series - at least Polyphony are smart enough to realise how
important frame rate is to the overall experience.

Microsoft's market research says people don't notice the difference - a
classic example of how market research on the ignorant masses gets it wrong.
Thank god we don't ask joe average his opinion when we develop video and TV
standards.

David G Fishe

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by David G Fishe » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:47:48

I also read 30fps recently.

The enthusia video is really amazing.
--
David G Fisher


Mitch_

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by Mitch_ » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:59:04

NTSC to PC *** isnt comparable.  When PC *** gets things like motion
blur then the comparison can possibly be made.  Not now.  I would agree
30fps is somewhat low but the key is consistency.  If you can get 30fps at a
consistently level of detail without slowdowns it will work fine and should
make a racing game more fair for everyone.  Ive always thought thats what
Eldred's problem is.  I get over 100FPS in NR2003 but that doesnt do me much
good at a track like Sears where the slowdown going into T1-2 drops me into
the 30's.  Id much prefer a consistent 30 everywhere.

Mitch


Steve Simpso

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by Steve Simpso » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:18:25

I'm not a fan of silly tricks like motion blur (nothing but a band-aid cover
up) or for that matter AA - I'd rather play in 1600x1200 than 1280x960 with
AA any day.

Uwe Sch??rkam

Forza Motorsport: 20 FPS shame shocker

by Uwe Sch??rkam » Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:02:56


> Indeed, according to Michael Johnson, product manager at Microsoft,
> although only 20 frames will be achieved, because of the
> anti-aliasing and other advances, controlling the car recreates the
> experience as if it were 180 frames per second, so the scribes at
> Gamerfeed report. Quite.

Just spin typical of MS: praising their bugs as "features" ;-)

Cheers,

Uwe

--
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Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
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