rec.autos.simulators

Are you sure about this?  I don't recall any performance changes after
collisions, although I didn't crash much to be honest.

Not sure what you mean by this?  If we assume GT3 AI meets the paltry
industry standards this does not make it acceptable.  Sucking just as much
as the competition shouldn't be the standard. ;0)

I believe most racing games DO in fact stink because of flawed AI.  If the
goal is to RACE and not hot lap then good RACING AI is critical.
Passing/Blocking logic.  Realisitic lap times based on the GAME PHYSICS and
not enhanced performance/grip to cheat.  I want AI that can make a mistake
and cause a crash.  This happens in F1 2001 ALMS mod often and it's fun for
me to come around a corner and see 2 AI cars colliding, spinning and tires
smoking.  It gets the adrenaline flowing since you must quickly try to avoid
crashing and you can't see very well because of the tire smoke and dirt if
they veered off track a bit.  I want AI that is aware of my presence so it
doesn't drive me off the road or rear end me when I'm running solid laps.

GPL has the best AI I've ever seen.  I've run dozens of consecutive laps
surrounded by AI cars with no ridiculous rear ends or side swipes (other
than reasonable driver error).  F1 2001 is pretty damn good but not up to
GPL standards.  NR2002 is very good.  Surprisingly a PS One game called
Jarrett and Labonte Racing had very good AI.  This is the basis for a highly
anticipated game Race Car Driver coming to PC/PS2 in June.

GT3 has NO racing AI.  GT3 has lapping AI.  The cars run perfect lines and
have NO idea when a human player is nearby.  In GT3 I run away from the AI
because they either rear-end or side swip me.  Bottom line for me is GT3
fails as a RACING game but succeeds as a driving game.  I get bored racing
alone most of the time.  If they do challenge me it's only 6 cars and they
are too hazardous to drive closely.

I agree. I think GT3 is a fine driving game.  It feels the way I expect
those cars to feel (other than the inability to lock the wheels under
braking).  Playing on a 36" digital set with surround sound and a FF wheel
is a damn good driving experience.

--
Joe Marques

The only thing on this forum that bothers me is that sometimes people get so
upset because someone disagrees with them and then they feel the need to
lash out because of it. Grow up and get over it. My opinion is that Gran
Turismo is too arcadey for me, and I really don't like the game in any sense
(got the game as a special PS2+GT3 package deal). Yes, I'm about 50% through
the game, and have sense just quit playing it altogether. There are to many
truly great racers out there that I would rather play.

-Chad

First, calling this thread "a legion of senseless replies" tells me you're a
bit too defensive regarding your post, lighten up will ya! :0)  Second, if
one is ***to reasonably criticize a game for obvious flaws, then is one a
complete dolt for NOT noticing them?  <tongue firmly in cheek>  ;0)  You do
realize that you propose a pointless TRIPLE standard?  Praise is encouraged,
fair criticism is not, and agreement with your point of view is required.
What ever happened to balance?

GT3 is a fun driving game.  It also has serious flaws that should not exist
in the 3rd fricken generation of the series.  There are pros AND cons.  I
vote that we talk about both.  Potential consumers should know the whole
story, not just the flowery praise.  Let advertisers take care of the
latter. ;0)

You give the GT3 AI far too much credit for tactical behavior: ". . . the
Mazda was pulling out every trick in the book to stay
with me - which of course killed his tyres in the process."  The Mazda was
running hot laps completely unaware of your position on the track and its
standing in the race.  It was programmed to run the same lap over and over
again and pit every X interval regardless of the situation.  I've raced the
best AI racing games and the worst AI racing games.  GT3 is near the bottom
in terms of racing strategy and behavior.  Try a good NASCAR sim and watch
the AI block like mad on the last lap.  This is situational awareness which
GT3 utterly lacks.

In GT3 the AI cars simply run hot laps in a vacuum.  Your description
exaggerates their race consciousness and strategic ability in my opinion.
Realizing that there's no objective fact that can prove either of us right,
it's essential that we BOTH post our opposing views and let the users decide
which view is more credible.  This has always been the value of a newsgroup
for me.  The PROS are of little use if there is no mention of the CONS.  No
one is trying to curb your positive enthusiasm, therefore, you should not
try to curb the criticism offered by myself and others.

If we don't analyze, criticize and debate then how do we expect Sony or any
other company to deliver what we truly want and deserve?

--
Joe Marques - anti-Lemming Coalition. ;0)

I just finished a six-week league there

I am about to start another one this Sunday

  Chris.
  :

  Commercial Racing Simulator in Minnesota http://www.smsonline.com/centers/moa_racingcenter.html

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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