rec.autos.simulators

        Last night I had one of the most exciting and competitive races I've had
on Multi. Rhawn Black,Tim Villon and myself started Rockingham, 1,2,3. We
had a clean start and ran for a number of laps in that order, pulling away
from the rest of the pack by some 7 seconds before we  encountered lap
traffic. Rhawn and Tim V. had begun to race each other and I sat patiently
in 3rd when a lap car was all over the track coming out of turn 4. He went
down on the apron and then back up on the track right in the middle of us.
Rhawn went high, I went low and Tim V. was the unfortunate victim. It was
a great experience running with those guys. I finished 2nd to Rhawn by .5
of a second. It's just a pity it could'nt have been settled by us 3
without the presence of a careless lapper.
        After the congrads in the post race chat, Rhawn and I decided  to go to
Bristol. I had set on the pole and dominated a 10% race at Bristol just 2
nights before, it was a fairly safe race with little stupidity going on,
so I felt we might could have a good race this time. WRONG!!! I messed the
qualifying run and started 7th, On the pace lap I was holding my line with
a steady speed when suddenly I get nailed from the rear hard. It put me
head on into the wall and almost completely destroyed the car before the
green even dropped. I don't know how many other cars were damaged, but at
least a half dozen I'm sure. By the time I left the pits I was 4 laps
down, somewhere around 20th position. Cars were still wrecking everywhere.
I was just trying to dodge cars and finish. It was'nt long before I was in
8th position 1 lap behind Allen B. (our NASSCAR WC point leader). He and
another car were doing the demolition derby thing right in front of me and
wound up spinning. I eventually came upon him again and passed him
cleanly. I had worked my way up to 6th when the system crashed.  When I
got logged back on. Most of the guys that were in the race were in the
main chat room. I stated that I had been nailed on the pace lap and Allen
B. replied "That was me". I said "Not intentionally I hope". He then
stated "Yes it was". I do not like him and he does not like me BUT, why
did he not race me and try to beat me legit.
Instead, he proved that he is a childish punk by not only ruining my race
but the race of many others. We don't need to spend  our money to be taken
out on the pace lap by an IDIOT!!! Like I said before Allen B. You are a
disgrace and I think you should be suspended from Multiplayer.
        I will resign from NASSCAR because of this letter and your presence Allen
B. but as far as multi, I am going to contact anyone I can at Papyrus to
try and get some action taken against you.

This is a letter I sent. Is there something that can be done about this
kind of BS? Rick? Ed?

--
-----------.   __   .-----------
     -----    \(  )/    ----- Cie (The Axeman) Phillips
        ---   ' \/ `   ---  #13 Envelop chevy  
          --- :    : ---   Eagle 1 MotorSports

              //..\\    http://www.racesimcentral.net/
             UU /\ UU
             '//||\\`
               ''``

<Lots of Complaints snipped>

My advice, just suck it up and keep racing.  Don't let him get the best of you.
 If you really want to avoid him, just try the F4 key (i think that's right) to
see who is in a particular race.  If he's there, jut don't join that race.  You
do realize that his bumping is counting against him?  Each accident he causes
that is severe enough to bring out a yellow will slow down his skill level
increase.  You sound like a fairly good racer, so hopefully you can advance
faster than he can.  Then you will be able to nominate races with a minimum
skill level that he will be unable to join.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/
Hawaii Network UserName: Buschwick (4)

I too think this is excellent advice, suck it up and drive on. You will
progress in the skill level ratings and he will not, then you can just get in
races of a higher skill level and avoid most of the chicanery.  

Just a thought however, when you get screwed like that, save the replay, as
well as whoever was in the race (standings), go back and analyse the thing from
his point of view. Maybe it will prove fodder to use against him with some
future race director for a series he's trying to enter.

Hang inthere...

Los

--

http://www.cris.com/~bms/index.htm
Closed Beta Tester Hawaii Network  - bsimpson online
"It's Always Darkest before it goes totally Black"

All I ask from you series racer guys/gals is to recognize that it is different,
and don't expect to win, and be competitive right off the bat just because you
can run fast against the AI.  One HUGE difference is you can usually always
out-brake the AI, and you can "slip" a little out of the groove and they will
yield you room.  THIS IS NOT THE CASE IN MP.  If you try and take the low line
on me at the ROCK (Cie saw Rhawn do this to me), you better be HUGGIN that
white line, cuz there won't be much more room for you above that.

Until you can accuratly and safely put your car where you want it in traffic, and
successfully vary your line and your groove predictably, you will potentially be
a hazard.  

This is unfortunate, but all to common.  I have been lambasted by MikeA80 (whoever
that was) when he went full speed into the pack under a yellow flag because
he was angry that some "jackass" hit him.  Get a clue!  So he ruins the race for
several of us.  This is the kind of attitude that sends crazies into office buildings
with guns!  WATCH OUT!

THE SOLUTION - racing leagues, cliques of drivers that trust each other.
Cie.. I'll go door to door with you anytime!

        Tim V

Dave

I

the race for several of us.

    Tim
     I saw that type of behavior more times than I thought I would.
  Sometimes they pass the entire yellow pace group to nail someone they
felt had done them wrong.
   I try like hell to get their ID.

                                Mlang

--
--- Terje Wold Johansen

--- http://www.ifi.uio.no/~terjjo/
--- "I am your inferior superior." O.W.

Perhaps there should a "Complaint" option in Multiplayer NASCAR like
there is in the Imagination Network?

Anyone can register a complaint against another driver (maybe include
replays of the accidents). If a driver receives too many *valid*
complaints then maybe the HAWAII administrators can take corrective
action (whatever that may be, banishment?).

There should be an understanding of mutual respect on any online
service. If a person can't accept the rules and abide by good
sportsmanship, then he/she shouldn't be allowed to play.

Just some thoughts...

--
-Jim

I agree with this option, we should be able to submit clear cut abuses of the system, which affect all of our ratings.  It will be up to Papyrus personnel though to decide
if they want to play Winston Cup officials though.  I also think there should be some
requirements before submitting a complaint, I am sure they would easily get overwhelmed by complaints if everyone submitted one for every "racing" incident.  The real drivers deal with it and so should we, we should have a means however to complain about "jerks" trying to ruin other people's skill level ratings, ie. running into someone on purpose because you were racing tight or something...just my 2cents.

l8r

Zoner

Better drivers are able to drive door to door for many laps to complete a
pass. It's just amazing to see a pack of four drivers looping around one of
the short ovals lap after lap, separated by a few tenths of a second.

Your suggestion to have a review board, I think you've answered on your own
- there are hundreds of races daily, and keeping our cost down so we can
keep your cost down is our top priority.  If you're in a series race, the
series administrator can implement any rules they would like, including a
review of any incidents in the race.  Once you're involved in a series,
your dial-up costs are likely to be lower, as well, because you'll want to
spend hours working offline to get the nuances of the track you'll be
racing next down pat.  Your phone bill will be lower, and you'll probably
enjoy the race even more than if you'd spent more time online.

Anyhow, our goal is to come up with an automated ratings system which is
simple and doesn't have a lot of ambiguity, so you know what's being scored
and we don't have to spend lots of $$$ having people review and arbitrate
race results.   We think we're pretty close to that goal, and that once the
open beta has been in operation for a few weeks we'll get the statistical
validity we need to get users ratings sorted out.  If we've missed the
target, we're listening to you guys, and we'll adjust the ratings system
accordingly.

Charlie Heath
Papyrus Design Group

Los

And yes, it's possible to have clean, exciting races. The other night,
there were 5 of us with skill levels 4 and up racing at Dover. It was the
closest thing to real racing I've been involved in. Lap after lap, we kept
trying different things to get around each other, but no one could seem to
get an advantage. There was one incident towards the end that was just a
racing deal. Two cars going for position just got a little too close. I
expect that this kind of race will become the norm as skill levels get
sorted out. And I look forward to many more races just like it.

Dave

Charlie, Ed, and r.a.s,

I wonder what affect providing an immediate, post-race "rating" would have
on the users.  What I thinking of is something like: After the race, the
system would report "Based on this race, your skill level would be __." or
"Your skill score for this race was -/+__".  Add to that "This would rank
you as one of our worst/best (pick the right one) drivers" and you have
what would hopefully be "positive (or negative) feedback".

It would not surprise me to discover that many of the "problem" users just
jumped into races and never bothered to read Nim's Tips or the User's
Guide.  Most of them probably don't have Internet or other online access
and therefore don't see any of the comments made about their behavior.
Without some kind of "unavoidable" criticism (positive or negative), these
users may never "improve".  On the other hand, I expect that some of the
"problem" users are being that way on purpose and there may be nothing
that can be done to modify their behavior.

By the way, is it possible to stay a "0" forever or is a 10 race "problem"
user automatically a "1"?

Another positive feedback approach (for the future) would be to tier the
price of online time by skill level(s).  I'm thinking here of only 2 or
3 tiers, split at the points where courteous, clean driving have a higher
weight than speed.  The answer to the above question could help settle
the debate that will surely develop around "What about a brand new user?".

I don't know how long the "open beta" and/or "pay your own LD charges" is
going to last, and it would be interesting to know how many of the
"problem" users are "617 locals".  If it would help eliminate a significant
percentage of the "problem" users, then I would prefer to call a "900" number
that might not lower my LD bill, but might make it easier to make sure
that the "problem" users were being charged just as much as I am.  I
realise this would be a burden on the "good 617 racers", but I'd like
to see this project succeed for all of us.

Regards,

Brad