rec.autos.simulators

I would appreciate suggestions concerning appropriate contacts at Sierra
and Papyrus where Mac users can express their enthusiasm for existing
racing simulations and their desire for continued support and development
of NASCAR and Indy Car products for the Mac.

Thanks,

Stan Nickle

The usual suspects probably apply here. Decisions of that sort are
influenced by the Executive Producer, Sales, and Marketing/PR. E-mail
or snail mail to any of them helps to accomplish your goals.

Of course, what speaks loudest to bean counters is SALES of the Mac
product, but regretably, a single individual can only influence that
so much.

I'm not going to post individual e-mail addresses, as next this you
know, that ONE person would have a box full of pleas, and for all the
contact I have with those type of folks, it would be just as likely to
be the wrong person...

Intelligent letters to customer service are another good route; those
people are far more skilled in routing mail of that sort than I am.

Not to take the wind off your sails, but you will be fighting an
uphill battle, as Mac sales have been lackluster (being generous
here)...

--Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

I have to say that in my opinion, if sales for NASCAR Mac are
lackluster its primarily for two reasons

a) The software just isn't well optimized for the Mac, at least not to
the point where people running a 100 MHz Mac can get enough frame rate
and detail to make the sim interesting to use.  My guess is that if
you guys at Papyrus wrote a version for the Mac from the ground up
with optimized PowerPC code you could get better performance than a
NASCAR 1 port.  I could be really sticking my foot in it if you did
this and performance was STILL poor, but friends I've talked to in the
Mac community can't understand why the frame rate has to be that bad.
b) Distribution has been lousy to say the least.  I bought this for my
brother in law at Christmas time and I had to resort to scanning
websites to find a mail order company that carried it.  Neither I here
in Silicon Valley or my brother-in-law's family in Atlanta could find
it anywhere they looked.  Some mail order places even denied the game
existed.  I was in Circuit City the other day and a guy who had a Mac
was looking at the GP2 and NASCAR boxes.  He was visibly deflated when
I told him he was holding the PC versions.  I directed him to the Mac
section and of course, no NASCAR Mac -- sale lost.

Randy

I concur with Randy. Even my friend's 200mhz PPC 603e based system
(Performa 6400/200) cannot sustain 30 fps on a 15 inch monitor without
turning some of the graphics off. My brother achieves comparable
performance with a 90mhz Pentium and a larger 17 inch monitor. The
benchmark tests that I have seen show comparable performance between the
603e and Pentiums at equal clock speed with similar system configurations.

Would there be any benefit in using a graphic acceleration card such as
ATI's Xclaim VR (I believe the software has to be written to take
advantage of RAVE technology)?

In the mean time I'm waiting to see what the 300mhz PPC 6500 will do or
until the 200mhz 604 based machine become less expensive.

Stan Nickle

Sorry to take the wind outta' your sails, but he said "...Mac sales have
been lackluster..."

You made a point about building from the ground up, but I think the sim
itself was merely a token good-deed to a dying (though first-rate) format.
Similar situation when Commodore bit the big one...the Amiga being one
of the best systems around, and for a while, smoked the Macs, but one
by one the software (and 3rd-party hw) companies either switched format,
or went down with the ship.

This isn't Papyrus' fault, and may actually be due to the slump in Mac
sales (sails?<g>).

Best Regards,

Marc - proud owner of an Amiga.  :)

Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing News - USA
http://members.aol.com/simracing

As for distribution, I was in Comp USA yesterday and saw about 5-6
copies here (in Florida).

God Bless,
Steve

You say this as if it were because of this that the game was not well
optimized for the Mac.  If in fact that is the case, you certainly
cannot blame the Mac user community for largely rejecting the sim if
its not up to the standards they have every right to expect.  Its kind
of like saying,  *IF* your assumption is correct about Papyrus'
attitude, "hey here's this hand-me-down.  Its not a great port, but
what the heck, we're just throwing you table scraps" then lamenting
how poor the sales are when people fail to flock to this poor cousin
to the PC version.  You can hardly blame Mac users for not wanting to
buy a sim which flat out doesn't perform on most of the Macs out
there.

Randy

Hi Randy,

It really comes down to this simple fact: that when the boat starts taking
on
water, the rats jump ship...why all these references to boats?<g>
Seriously,
whether the sales in question are that of slow Mac, or slow NR-Mac,
becomes
a mute point.  The company's primary objective to make a profit, and if
one of
the 3rd-echelon products is in a slump, they'll usually pull it
fast...Perhaps
later they'll look into *why* it slumped, but since it's not front-line
goods, it'll
be shelved.

In another post, Jim had mentioned about the "passion" behind a project,
and like ICR2, may be (part) of the reason why NR-Mac won't go beyond
a port from NR-PC...If you don't like (or aren't interested), why do it?
This
may seem too simplistic, but part of what makes the products from Papy
so popular, is the *fire* that's burning under the project, and right now
that
fire is *hotest* under the PC-version of NASCAR.

And I don't blame them...If the product is indeed heavily flawed as you
say (I haven't played the Mac version), then they have every right to
***
for a sound product.  This ties into what I said above, in that I also
feel
that once a project has been started (and released as a finished product),
that it be finished to a degree to which the user will find it enjoyable
and
worth the investment.  If they initially had this *fire* burning for a
NR-Mac
version, then that product should be as close to 100% as possible, and
if the fire burns out, then don't do another, but above all else; don't
turn your back (partially, or whatever) on the customers who purchased
a previous product.

NR-Mac doesn't suffer from the licensing woes of ICR2, so Mac users
should have their *own* version of the sim, rather than a mere "port".
Jim, and a few other Papy employees may disaggree, but I feel if you're
going to support a particular platform, don't do it half-assed.

Sorry for the double post, but "yew sarted it!!"  ;))

Best Regards,

Marc

Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing News - USA
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Randy is right when he says that it takes a pretty strong Mac to run the
sim effectively. Heck, one of the reasons I upgraded from a 100MHz 601
machine to a 180MHz 604e was so Nascar and IndyCar would run better. And
the vast majority of Macs out there are slower than the 100MHz 601 I
dumped. Other than the speed issure, I think the port is good.

I think there are six factors as to why the Mac version hasn't sold as
well as hoped:

1. It takes a very fast Mac to run well. This fact is emphasized in every
review of the product. Fortunately, faster and faster Macs are being
purchased every day.

2. I never saw a single Nascar Mac ad *anywhere* outside of a catalog (and
then only occasionally).

3. The T2 wheel was slow in coming, is still expensive relative to the PC
counterpart ($150), and still seems to be available only directly from
Thrustmaster. I have not seen the Mac version in any store, or advertised
in any magazine. We all know the difference a wheel makes in the enjoyment
of the sim.

4. Nascar Mac was released near the time Nascar 2 was released for the PC.
The Mac version should have been matched up with the PC version, even if
it meant a delay in the release of the Mac product. Mac folks don't want
to be a version behind the PC side.

5. There is no multi-player option (beyond one-on-one) available. We Mac
users can't use the Hawaii system, or any other multi-player system, and
won't be able to participate in NRO. In my mind, this would be a huge
selling point.

6. And perhaps most importantly, there is no computer racing "culture"
built up yet on the Mac side. How long ago was IndyCar 1 and Nascar 1
released on the PC side? Years ago. In that time, the culture has had a
chance to build up: web sites, newsgroups (this one), people bought wheels
over time and upgraded their machines, upgrades were released, leagues
were formed, the Hawaii system was developed, the word is spread, car sets
are made, utilities are programmed, etc. This all happens slowly over
time, not in a few months. Nascar Mac was just released a few months ago
(was it September?). I'll bet the majority of Nascar Mac owners have no
idea that this culture even exists. I stumbled into it, and I was very
impressed.

In sum, it will take time to build up the culture, the familiarity with
the product, the fast machines, and the accessories on the Mac side. But
none of this will happen if future upgrades (Nascar 2) are not released.
People will realize that it is a dead product, see that they can't race
against their PC friends who are a version ahead, and subsequently won't
make the investments in time and equipment necessary to get full enjoyment
out of the product.

Jim
-- who is hoping his e***ment with Nascar Racing doesn't meet a dead end.

Thanks for your help.

Stan Nickle