rec.autos.simulators

GP500 realistic?

Jo

GP500 realistic?

by Jo » Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I'm not a motorcyclist so I don't know how realistic this game is. But
it seems I can't throw the bike with either excessive braking nor
acceleration, the only way to crash is the leave the track or turn to
hard.

This doesn't seem right. Even SBK modeled the effects of too much
braking/accel.

I did turn auto-lean off and tried leaning the "wrong" way, still
couldn't throw the bike. And I'm running on realistic physics. Is
there another driver-aid option that I've missed?

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

DjFI

GP500 realistic?

by DjFI » Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:00:00

trust us.  its realistic.  my friend owns a few bikes, sport bikes has
tested throwing around his weight.  at a good speed, you can do a full
lean and it will turn very little.  Bike will only slip if your on the gas
or break in a turn.  Trust me the physics is very well done in gp500.

DjFIL


> I'm not a motorcyclist so I don't know how realistic this game is. But
> it seems I can't throw the bike with either excessive braking nor
> acceleration, the only way to crash is the leave the track or turn to
> hard.

> This doesn't seem right. Even SBK modeled the effects of too much
> braking/accel.

> I did turn auto-lean off and tried leaning the "wrong" way, still
> couldn't throw the bike. And I'm running on realistic physics. Is
> there another driver-aid option that I've missed?

> Joe McGinn
> ==========================================
> Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
> ==========================================

Steve Blankenshi

GP500 realistic?

by Steve Blankenshi » Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:00:00


> trust us.  its realistic.  my friend owns a few bikes, sport bikes has
> tested throwing around his weight.  at a good speed, you can do a full
> lean and it will turn very little.  Bike will only slip if your on the gas
> or break in a turn.  Trust me the physics is very well done in gp500.

    It's not bad, but it does lack the kind of "feel" for grip we've come to
know and love with GPL(and even Viper).  In fact, the handling model reminds
me a bit of GP2 in a way.  There are canned-feeling aspects, but they feel
pretty nicely canned. :-)  It seems to run right up to a threshold and then
hit various routines, but the threshold for both acceleration and braking
grip under heavy lean are on the high side.  The step-outs, headshakes and
tankslappers are a touch cheesy, but they do happen more or less when you
expect them to.  At least they're not as scary as real ones!  A BIT more
gradual breakaway of the tires would help, as might some skid sounds when
approaching the limit, since you have no tactile sensations like you would
in real life.  You don't slide GP bikes around much of course, or get a LOT
of notice when they let go, but as it is now there's no feel at all for
what's happening at the tires, IMHO.  Since the primary challenge (and
reward) of going fast is the fight for grip, that's a significant miss.
    That said, the visuals are lovely (C450/V3 - w/settings maxed)and do
convey the feeling of*** it out on a (very)fast motorbike.  It's bound
to be tough to model the experience since the control routine is so
different, but I did notice a few old bike-racing sensations perk up their
long-dormant heads while playing the game.  Can't say the sound has much to
recommend it, though.  First, the engine sound volume is way too low
relative to the others.  And real 500 GP bikes are *** beasts; the wind
noise they make is enormous.  These things sound like a bunch of 50cc
peewees buzzing around.  While you can hear other bikes around you
generally, when one slides up and bumps against you, there's no louder
engine noise, or thud, or.....anything.  That should really be a "moment",
but it's not.  Perhaps that's an A3D or EAX-only thing?
    Still good fun though, and it's certainly a "sim".  I never got around
to trying SBK but this things blows every other bike game I've tried into
oblivion.  A welcome addition to the market.  Now if they'll just tweak it
around the edges a bit between now and October.:-)

Cheers,

Steve B.

Jan Verschuere

GP500 realistic?

by Jan Verschuere » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Sorry Joe,

But I already flipped it, dumped it, highsided it and lost the front on many
occasions... you must not be pushing hard enough (or you're not in sim more,
which I find hard to believe). Remember, a bike sticks like crazy glue (it's
only got two wheels and they're in line) up until a certain point.... ;-))

Especially the bike's reactions as you're just about to fall are so good
they make me feel as if I'd be kissing tarmac in a matter of seconds.

Jan./GP500 is best bike game to date... no doubt.
------


>I'm not a motorcyclist so I don't know how realistic this game is. But
><snip>

S. Tra

GP500 realistic?

by S. Tra » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Are you trying to say you can't throw the bike (i.e. maneuver the bike
quckly) while getting on the brakes or throttle?  I can tell you from
first hand experience that bikes DO NOT like being braked while
turning.  It is the absolute worst thing you can do as the bike will
attempt to stand back up.  As for hard core throttling it, you should
be able to accelerate while turning just fine.  That's how you're
supposed to do it.  Not sure if that's what you were talking about,
but hope it helps.  I'm D/L the game right now (wow, what a sorry ass
Fri night I'm having), so it'll take a bit 'till I try it myself.


>I'm not a motorcyclist so I don't know how realistic this game is. But
>it seems I can't throw the bike with either excessive braking nor
>acceleration, the only way to crash is the leave the track or turn to
>hard.

>This doesn't seem right. Even SBK modeled the effects of too much
>braking/accel.

>I did turn auto-lean off and tried leaning the "wrong" way, still
>couldn't throw the bike. And I'm running on realistic physics. Is
>there another driver-aid option that I've missed?

>Joe McGinn
>==========================================
>Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
>==========================================

S. Trask
1989 FZR 600 ('97 motor)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Kevin Anderso

GP500 realistic?

by Kevin Anderso » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I have been riding sport bikes for almost 10 years now. some bikes I have
had include ZX10, Ducati 750ss, and currently YZF 750. I am am very
impressed with the game, I love it actually, But, how realistic is it?
    Lets break it down.
        Acceleration. It lacks the feel, the thrill, the rush of
acceleration. In GPL you can almost feel the car squirming under you and
drifting as you accelerate. I just don't sense the speed in GP500. In real
life my bike would require a delicate clutch hand to balance the bike
between wheel sin and wheelie. But all that is missing in GP500. And it's
easier to get high sided on my YZF then it is in the game, I am guessing it
should be the other way around.
    Braking. Feels like I am slowing down a car in the game. In real life
When you grab those brakes and then try and turn, it is very difficult.
Bikes just do not want to lean over when you are applying brakes. You try
and get  the real speed slowed down while still pointing straight and then
as you ease up on brake you lean into turn. and once in the turn applying
more brake will want to stand the bike back up. all has to do with the
spinning mass of the front wheel I believe. For those that think they should
lock are wrong. My YZF brakes never lock up(front that is)even on wet roads
it is hard to get the front to lock. Back wheel will hover  a foot in the
air before the wheel locks up. and for those worried about rear brakes not
have a separate controller. Rear brakes does nothing to slow down bake. All
the weight is on the front. Many racers use the rear for trail braking in
corners. They drag it while still on accelerator to help stable the back
end. Not something to many of us can do anyway.
    I do believe the game lacks(still an awesome game though), But it is
just a game, how can you ever replace seat of the pants feel in a game.

--
Kevin Anderson


ICQ # 6769389


c

GP500 realistic?

by c » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Actually, if you watch a lot of gp racing, you'll notice that they slide the
bikes around A LOT.  They push the front pretty *** the way in, and hang out
the rear on the way out.  You may only notice it when they get out of shape, or
do a fat slide, but all those really fast guys are sliding ALL the time.  There
just really smooth about it, so you don't really notice. That's how all that
black *** gets laid down on the corners :)
Mark C Dod

GP500 realistic?

by Mark C Dod » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00

As a BETA tester of the game I must make comment that I feel the *** of the
physics in the DEMO does seem a bit toned down from the pre release versions I
played with. Perhaps the developers are simply trying to get enough people doing
laps instead of dismissing hte game in frustration. Perhaps the *** will be
back in the released version and people can high side and flip to their hearts
content!

P.S. Altering the rake of the bike makes the *** return in a big way. The
default settings in the demo have a rake of 23 degrees and a trail of 95mm.
Reducing this to 21 degrees and the trail to around 80mm produces the expected
"nervousness". In the demo you can't alter the engine power/torque curve.
Playing with this, as you will be able to do in the retail version, can produce
a monster with a narrow power bandwidth. *** acceleration is the result.
Once again the engine setting for the demo is conservative.

As for GP500 bikes and sliding. The ability to control a slide is the bigest
asset a GP500 ride can posses. This is why many top GP500 riders use offf road
riding as a training tool. Some of the GP500 developers actually spent time with
Kenny Roberts Jnr at his Ranch learning the finer points of sliding.



> > trust us.  its realistic.  my friend owns a few bikes, sport bikes has
> > tested throwing around his weight.  at a good speed, you can do a full
> > lean and it will turn very little.  Bike will only slip if your on the gas
> > or break in a turn.  Trust me the physics is very well done in gp500.

>     It's not bad, but it does lack the kind of "feel" for grip we've come to
> know and love with GPL(and even Viper).  In fact, the handling model reminds
> me a bit of GP2 in a way.  There are canned-feeling aspects, but they feel
> pretty nicely canned. :-)  It seems to run right up to a threshold and then
> hit various routines, but the threshold for both acceleration and braking
> grip under heavy lean are on the high side.  The step-outs, headshakes and
> tankslappers are a touch cheesy, but they do happen more or less when you
> expect them to.  At least they're not as scary as real ones!  A BIT more
> gradual breakaway of the tires would help, as might some skid sounds when
> approaching the limit, since you have no tactile sensations like you would
> in real life.  You don't slide GP bikes around much of course, or get a LOT
> of notice when they let go, but as it is now there's no feel at all for
> what's happening at the tires, IMHO.  Since the primary challenge (and
> reward) of going fast is the fight for grip, that's a significant miss.
>     That said, the visuals are lovely (C450/V3 - w/settings maxed)and do
> convey the feeling of*** it out on a (very)fast motorbike.  It's bound
> to be tough to model the experience since the control routine is so
> different, but I did notice a few old bike-racing sensations perk up their
> long-dormant heads while playing the game.  Can't say the sound has much to
> recommend it, though.  First, the engine sound volume is way too low
> relative to the others.  And real 500 GP bikes are *** beasts; the wind
> noise they make is enormous.  These things sound like a bunch of 50cc
> peewees buzzing around.  While you can hear other bikes around you
> generally, when one slides up and bumps against you, there's no louder
> engine noise, or thud, or.....anything.  That should really be a "moment",
> but it's not.  Perhaps that's an A3D or EAX-only thing?
>     Still good fun though, and it's certainly a "sim".  I never got around
> to trying SBK but this things blows every other bike game I've tried into
> oblivion.  A welcome addition to the market.  Now if they'll just tweak it
> around the edges a bit between now and October.:-)

> Cheers,

> Steve B.

Hena Hakkane

GP500 realistic?

by Hena Hakkane » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00


Agreed! Plus there's no way a simulator can simulate the adrenaline rush of
a 180bhp bike in full acceleration.

Hmmm ... there must be something wrong with my tires 'cause I lock up the
front wheel with my ZX-11, no probs.

You can't. Those of you read my Ring report will know that! :)

Hena

--
Best regards,
Hena H?kk?nen

Remove NOSPAM to email me!

Kevin Anderso

GP500 realistic?

by Kevin Anderso » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Reason why you lock up that ZX11 is because it weighs as much as a car <G>.
I never lock my front and I can't imagine those Gp bikes locking up to much.

--
Kevin Anderson


ICQ # 6769389




> > I have been riding sport bikes for almost 10 years now. some bikes I
have
> > had include ZX10, Ducati 750ss, and currently YZF 750. I am am very
> > impressed with the game, I love it actually, But, how realistic is it?
> >     Lets break it down.
> >         Acceleration. It lacks the feel, the thrill, the rush of
> > acceleration. In GPL you can almost feel the car squirming under you and
> > drifting as you accelerate. I just don't sense the speed in GP500. In
real

> Agreed! Plus there's no way a simulator can simulate the adrenaline rush
of
> a 180bhp bike in full acceleration.

> > spinning mass of the front wheel I believe. For those that think they
> should
> > lock are wrong. My YZF brakes never lock up(front that is)even on wet
> roads
> > it is hard to get the front to lock. Back wheel will hover  a foot in
the

> Hmmm ... there must be something wrong with my tires 'cause I lock up the
> front wheel with my ZX-11, no probs.

> >     I do believe the game lacks(still an awesome game though), But it is
> > just a game, how can you ever replace seat of the pants feel in a game.

> You can't. Those of you read my Ring report will know that! :)

> Hena

> --
> Best regards,
> Hena H?kk?nen

> Remove NOSPAM to email me!

Jo

GP500 realistic?

by Jo » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00


>trust us.  its realistic.  my friend owns a few bikes, sport bikes has
>tested throwing around his weight.  at a good speed, you can do a full
>lean and it will turn very little.  Bike will only slip if your on the gas
>or break in a turn.  Trust me the physics is very well done in gp500.

So you're saying that a bike of this power will not flip over you if
you apply 100% full-on brakes at full speed?

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

Jo

GP500 realistic?

by Jo » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00


Are you saying you can slide the bikes around in GP 500, but not in
the demo?

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

Jo

GP500 realistic?

by Jo » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00


>But I already flipped it, dumped it, highsided it and lost the front on many
>occasions... you must not be pushing hard enough (or you're not in sim more,
>which I find hard to believe).

Well, I am in sim mode ... and I cannot throw this bike via
acceleration or braking. Trust me, I'm not THAT good a rider.

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

Jo

GP500 realistic?

by Jo » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00


>Not sure if that's what you were talking about,
>but hope it helps.  

I'm talking more about all-out braking. I was under the impression
(perhgaps mistaken?) that one should not apply 100% brakes at top
speed.

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

Jo

GP500 realistic?

by Jo » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00


>        Acceleration. It lacks the feel, the thrill, the rush of
>acceleration. In GPL you can almost feel the car squirming under you and
>drifting as you accelerate. I just don't sense the speed in GP500.

I'd noticed that too. SBK had a better sense of speed IMO, and SBK
wasn't that great in the sense of speed/accel cvategory either.

SBK had this effect (rear wheel rising under excessive braking) but I
can't make the GP500 bikes do it.

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================


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