so that may be where some of the confusion lies.
I wasn't very clear, sorry about that.
-John
-John
This was years ago, but if memory serves (and it quite possibly does not),
didn't Earnhardt and Rusty tangle on the last lap at Dega one year, where
Earnhardt won and Rusty came in 2nd while doing end-over-ends in the
infield?
And I still say that (while keeping it REALISTIC Dave), that damaged cares
have won races!
We should have additive damage repair in N4 as well.
Hey, if others can have their 'realistic' pull to the left, then dammit I
want my additive damage repairs :)
-Larry
> > -Larry
> > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast"
> > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the
problem.
> > > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pits
for
> > > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the
> wreck.
> > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem.
> > > >-John
> > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after
> > > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times they're
> > > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw ruin
> > > your driving experience?
> > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car it
> > > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate
> > > its full rpms if you've taken a*** to the front; if you've been hit
> > > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining
> > > control in the turns.
> >PLENTY of damaged cars have won Nascar Races. You must not watch them
all.
> It is difficult to imagine how you could have reached the conclusion
> that we were discussing the results of real life NASCAR events
> considering the repeated mention of "NASCAR 4" and that Papyrus is in
> the name of this thread. Nonetheless let me clarify for you: we are
> discussing the computer game "NASCAR 4" published by Papyrus in which
> the player drives a stock car in competition against the AI or other
> human players, not about the actual sport that we watch Sunday
> mornings on television.
THAT is exactly what I've been trying to say...
In REAL life, Nascar Racers get their banged up cars fixed all the time, and
go on to win races. Each time they pit, their cars get a little bit better.
In N4, once you take a hit, you get a certain amount of damage repaired, and
that's it. No more. No matter HOW many times you pit it never gets any
better. This is NOT realistic for a Sim that's as notable as N4 for it's
realism.
You also make another good point. I dare say it is _possible_ to win a race
on N4 at Short and Intermediate tracks (but not superspeedways) while
damaged IF realism rules are in effect, i.e. Yellow Flags.
Most WON Races are short, "he who wrecks everyone out of the way first wins"
type of races, which is a real shame. I'd love to see servers dedicated to
50% minimum races with full realism in effect.
40% races were very common on TEN.
Maybe would could get Papy to convert one of it's crash-fest servers to 50%,
NON-fixed, full-realism races?
-Larry
> >meettonysoprano,
> >You must not race on WON :)
> Yeah, I race there quite a lot (or the "Papy Servers" as I am used to
> calling them.) I see a lot of wrecking but I never to my knowledge
> have seen someone who pitted to get damage repaired go on to win a
> race. (Having pitted for that purpose plenty of times myself I know
> that you end up several laps down due to the lack of yellow flags).
-John
> This was years ago, but if memory serves (and it quite possibly does not),
> didn't Earnhardt and Rusty tangle on the last lap at Dega one year, where
> Earnhardt won and Rusty came in 2nd while doing end-over-ends in the
> infield?
> And I still say that (while keeping it REALISTIC Dave), that damaged cares
> have won races!
> We should have additive damage repair in N4 as well.
> Hey, if others can have their 'realistic' pull to the left, then dammit I
> want my additive damage repairs :)
> -Larry
> > But not ones that have barrel-rolled down the backstretch. I think
that
> > is his point.
> > dave henrie
> > > PLENTY of damaged cars have won Nascar Races. You must not watch them
> > all.
> > > -Larry
> > > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast"
> > > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the
> problem.
> > > > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pits
> for
> > > > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the
> > wreck.
> > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem.
> > > > >-John
> > > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after
> > > > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times
they're
> > > > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw
ruin
> > > > your driving experience?
> > > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car
it
> > > > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate
> > > > its full rpms if you've taken a*** to the front; if you've been
hit
> > > > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining
> > > > control in the turns.
-Larry
> -John
> > Didn't rusty come close at Dega one time?
> > This was years ago, but if memory serves (and it quite possibly does
not),
> > didn't Earnhardt and Rusty tangle on the last lap at Dega one year,
where
> > Earnhardt won and Rusty came in 2nd while doing end-over-ends in the
> > infield?
> > And I still say that (while keeping it REALISTIC Dave), that damaged
cares
> > have won races!
> > We should have additive damage repair in N4 as well.
> > Hey, if others can have their 'realistic' pull to the left, then dammit
I
> > want my additive damage repairs :)
> > -Larry
> > > But not ones that have barrel-rolled down the backstretch. I think
> that
> > > is his point.
> > > dave henrie
> > > > PLENTY of damaged cars have won Nascar Races. You must not watch
them
> > > all.
> > > > -Larry
> > > > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast"
> > > > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the
> > problem.
> > > > > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the
pits
> > for
> > > > > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the
> > > wreck.
> > > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem.
> > > > > >-John
> > > > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after
> > > > > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times
> they're
> > > > > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw
> ruin
> > > > > your driving experience?
> > > > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car
> it
> > > > > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not
generate
> > > > > its full rpms if you've taken a*** to the front; if you've been
> hit
> > > > > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining
> > > > > control in the turns.
Yeah, me too. I raced on a homemade server recently where they had
hacked the Daytona track to not use plates. Either as a side effect
or as a seperate hack everyone had to pit for gas once and it really
adds a missing element to the race.
I'd presume that others have suggested this to them, but it couldn't
hurt to add to the voices of reason.
Check dat oil please!
:)
As for the No-Plate server, that would be the Orion SS Arcade/Hybrid Setup
server. I race there all the time. It's a fun step back into the past :)
However, you have to be there when the right group of regulars are around.
There are 3 or 4 people (I could mention names, but won't) that
consistently, every single damned race, from the very first lap go to the
low lane and block it for every single mother-lovin' lap of every single
race.
I am a clean, courteous racer and this brings ME to the brink of madness.
I've adopted a new attitude towards blockers. You wanna block an entire
damned race? Fine. That's your choice. BUT, you WILL be subjected to my
continous bump-drafts until yer ass is out of my way...
Last Lap blocking is fair game and I'll leave you alone... You were in the
right place at the right time. Though I do have a pretty wicked draft-high
manuever for turn 4 that wins a race every now and then, and takes the
inside car dude quite by suprise :)
-Larry
> >In N4, once you take a hit, you get a certain amount of damage repaired,
and
> >that's it. No more. No matter HOW many times you pit it never gets any
> >better.
> I agree that aspect could be modelled better. In fact I think the
> whole damage model could be handled better. I don't disagree with any
> of the comments that unrealistic results happen in accidents. Many
> times I have taken blows that would have killed the driver and pitted,
> then continued the race to finish several laps down. I just don't
> feel that it completely ruins the simulation.
> >I'd love to see servers dedicated to
> >50% minimum races with full realism in effect.
> Yeah, me too. I raced on a homemade server recently where they had
> hacked the Daytona track to not use plates. Either as a side effect
> or as a seperate hack everyone had to pit for gas once and it really
> adds a missing element to the race.
> >Maybe would could get Papy to convert one of it's crash-fest servers to
50%,
> >NON-fixed, full-realism races?
> I'd presume that others have suggested this to them, but it couldn't
> hurt to add to the voices of reason.
I think it was a hacked server where they'd done something to the
friction of the track where I had my strangest wreck. After getting
t-boned in turn 4 at Daytona my Chevy flipped up on its side and
started sliding along the wall, then slowly drifted down onto the
front straight, middle of the track...and just kept sliding, at about
10 mph, on its side, all the way into the tri-oval, with cars zooming
past on either side, until I came to a rest on the apron right at the
start-finish line. About 2 seconds after my car stopped moving the
car that originally hit me and had been involved in unknown activities
of his own came rolling in dead on his wheels and tapped the
underbelly of my car, knocking me upside down. Very funny stuff.
Get some help and pass 'em on the backstraight, that's what I say.
>I am a clean, courteous racer and this brings ME to the brink of madness.
>I've adopted a new attitude towards blockers. You wanna block an entire
>damned race? Fine. That's your choice. BUT, you WILL be subjected to my
>continous bump-drafts until yer ass is out of my way...
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
It was definetely different :)
-Larry
> >As for the No-Plate server, that would be the Orion SS Arcade/Hybrid
Setup
> >server. I race there all the time. It's a fun step back into the past
:)
> Actually this was a different server, the name escapes me right now
> but I'm thinking the letter "z" was involved.
> I think it was a hacked server where they'd done something to the
> friction of the track where I had my strangest wreck. After getting
> t-boned in turn 4 at Daytona my Chevy flipped up on its side and
> started sliding along the wall, then slowly drifted down onto the
> front straight, middle of the track...and just kept sliding, at about
> 10 mph, on its side, all the way into the tri-oval, with cars zooming
> past on either side, until I came to a rest on the apron right at the
> start-finish line. About 2 seconds after my car stopped moving the
> car that originally hit me and had been involved in unknown activities
> of his own came rolling in dead on his wheels and tapped the
> underbelly of my car, knocking me upside down. Very funny stuff.
> >However, you have to be there when the right group of regulars are
around.
> >There are 3 or 4 people (I could mention names, but won't) that
> >consistently, every single damned race, from the very first lap go to the
> >low lane and block it for every single mother-lovin' lap of every single
> >race.
> Get some help and pass 'em on the backstraight, that's what I say.
If I were to pick up someone behind me, then go high to try and go around
the blocker, the bastaad behind me would split the two of us and pass us
both. Guaranteed.
-Larry
> >As for the No-Plate server, that would be the Orion SS Arcade/Hybrid
Setup
> >server. I race there all the time. It's a fun step back into the past
:)
> Actually this was a different server, the name escapes me right now
> but I'm thinking the letter "z" was involved.
> I think it was a hacked server where they'd done something to the
> friction of the track where I had my strangest wreck. After getting
> t-boned in turn 4 at Daytona my Chevy flipped up on its side and
> started sliding along the wall, then slowly drifted down onto the
> front straight, middle of the track...and just kept sliding, at about
> 10 mph, on its side, all the way into the tri-oval, with cars zooming
> past on either side, until I came to a rest on the apron right at the
> start-finish line. About 2 seconds after my car stopped moving the
> car that originally hit me and had been involved in unknown activities
> of his own came rolling in dead on his wheels and tapped the
> underbelly of my car, knocking me upside down. Very funny stuff.
> >However, you have to be there when the right group of regulars are
around.
> >There are 3 or 4 people (I could mention names, but won't) that
> >consistently, every single damned race, from the very first lap go to the
> >low lane and block it for every single mother-lovin' lap of every single
> >race.
> Get some help and pass 'em on the backstraight, that's what I say.
It's obvious we are talking about SuperSpeedways on a SPECIFIC Server Set up
in a SPECIFIC way for SPECIFIC races.
And a few specific bone-heads...
-Larry
> >However, you have to be there when the right group of regulars are
around.
> >There are 3 or 4 people (I could mention names, but won't) that
> >consistently, every single damned race, from the very first lap go to the
> >low lane and block it for every single mother-lovin' lap of every single
> >race.
> >I am a clean, courteous racer and this brings ME to the brink of madness.
> >I've adopted a new attitude towards blockers. You wanna block an entire
> >damned race? Fine. That's your choice. BUT, you WILL be subjected to
my
> >continous bump-drafts until yer ass is out of my way...
> Why, Larry? Would you use this same 'tactic' on a road course if the
driver in
> front was able to hold the preferred line? Why should someone move out of
your
> way, just because you want to go by? That doesn't sound like the act of a
> clean, courteous racer to me... :(
> Eldred
> --
> Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank - under construction...
> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
>If I were to pick up someone behind me, then go high to try and go around
>the blocker, the bastaad behind me would split the two of us and pass us
>both. Guaranteed.
Yep, I love pulling those kinds of moves. I call it the *** Move,
cause by passing them on the high line like that you've effectively made
them your ***. :-)
--
Fester