rec.autos.simulators

** Motorsims Announces SCCA Trans-Am Sim **

Chris Cavi

** Motorsims Announces SCCA Trans-Am Sim **

by Chris Cavi » Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I was under the impression that the Can-Am
series folded after last season.  Can someone
confirm that?

-Chris-

> Great news, but what happened to CanAm??

> (worried)

> Matt

> George M. Smiley skrev i meldingen ...


> >> FYI, before anybody starts to bash Motorsims for no reason, the
> >> game engine is EXCELLENT.  Think of AMA SBK, the incredible tracks
> >> and having a SportsCar racing on them with the game engine.  It is
> >> almost-GPL quality.

> >Umm, how do you know?

> > - George

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Before you buy.
Chuck Kandle

** Motorsims Announces SCCA Trans-Am Sim **

by Chuck Kandle » Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:00:00


>  It is a full 3d environment
> here, you can go anywhere you want.  -anywhere-.

Ummmmm.....They got Riverside in this one?  ;-))

Sorry.  Couldn't help myself!!

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
ChuckK or KS70 on Won.net
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!

mjessick-Motorsim

** Motorsims Announces SCCA Trans-Am Sim **

by mjessick-Motorsim » Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:00:00


> To be blunt, Francois, who gives a toss about having the ability to go
> "anywhere" in a racing sim?  The idea is, after all, to stay on the circuit!! I
> for one would prefer development time and money be given to something of
> benefit....which does not include having the ability to go "anywhere".  A
> wonderful feature for a first-person shooter...but not for a racing sim.

That capability is just a side effect of our requirements
to reuse track designs for different types of racing.
For example, AMA Superbike and SCCA Trans-Am. ;)
So we don't use the simpler "Canyon Racer" techniques
usual in games in order to get the most reuse from the
large effort expended to model every track.

Each series we do will potentially use each facility a little
differently. One example that springs to mind are the course
differences used between AMA Superbike, SCCA Trans-Am and
oval racing, all at Pikes Peak International Raceway.
AFAIK so far, two different pit areas are used at Road Atlanta,
etc., etc. On the licensing side, a first rate depiction
of a facility makes it much easier to license. We've had
some very nice comments from track owners.

The different events use more or less of the ovals,
more or less of the infield, more or less of the
pit in/out roads, etc. Since I expect to have to
use some of those runnoff areas (and take my penalty ;),
I'm glad we have them available...

The street courses in SCCA Trans-Am are a big job
and will be more akin to the canyon racers that
people are used to.

Keeping up with the tracks is a big job too.
I hear that Sear's Point bulldozed a large hill
in thier infield recently.

--
Matthew V. Jessick         Motorsims

Vehicle Dynamics Engineer  (972)910-8866 Ext.125, Fax: (972)910-8216

George M. Smile

** Motorsims Announces SCCA Trans-Am Sim **

by George M. Smile » Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:00:00


> That was just an example of how in-depth and detailed the
> driving model WAS!

Yes, which was then used as an excuse to explain why the
shipping model lacked depth and detail.  Our model was
*SO* accurate no one could keep the bikes upright and
traveling in a straight line.  Huh?  Sounds like the original
model was just as bad as the current scaled down one.

Regardless I don't care how detailed the model was/could
have been/might be with a patch someday in the distant
future.  As of now the model is fairly poor.  If you dispute
this, please explain why you think it fully captures motorcycle
racing instead of merely dismissing it with 'it's obvious ...'.

Sure, but this is a racing game, not a parking lot simulator.
Why focus in on the instability at low speeds when 99.99%
percent of the time the bike will be going faster than that.
How hard is it to implement a dead zone in the steering
input at low speeds?

Oh please, if you are going to be too lazy to form an
opinion then why even bother to post in the first place?

 - George

Chris Cavi

** Motorsims Announces SCCA Trans-Am Sim **

by Chris Cavi » Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:00:00

There are miriad tiny little weight shifts and handle bar corrections
that are given to a motorcycle by the rider that result from the riders
sense of balance.  These inputs are almost given subconsciously, so
nobody really thinks much about them.  However, a player cannot respond
in that intuitive manner to a computer because he's got no sense of the
bike's balance from the seat of his pants.  It's my belief that this is
the reason why the full physics model was undrivable.  There were
simply too many small, nearly subconscious corrections that need to be
supplied that just aren't going to be possible to sense through a
computer monitor.  Have you ever ridden a motorcycle?  That's not a
slam, just a question.

-Chris-

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

George M. Smile

** Motorsims Announces SCCA Trans-Am Sim **

by George M. Smile » Sat, 11 Dec 1999 04:00:00


> There are miriad tiny little weight shifts and handle bar
> corrections that are given to a motorcycle by the rider
> that result from the riders sense of balance. These
> inputs are almost given subconsciously, so nobody
> really thinks much about them. However, a player
> cannot respond in that intuitive manner to a computer
> because he's got no sense of the bike's balance from
> the seat of his pants. It's my belief that this is
> the reason why the full physics model was undrivable.

I take it you have never ridden around on the footpegs
standing up with your arms flapping about in a victory
celebration. A motorcycle in motion has a strong
tendency to stay in motion regardless of subtle
rider inputs.

See above. Have you? At speed on a track? If so,
how good do you think the physics model is?

Regardless, I have to say we are getting off track here.
Very few of the points I listed have much to do with rider
balance. Some are the result of making the game 'easier'
(the inability to crash on tarmac) and I would be willing
to accept those if there was a mode where I could turn those
limits off, some however can only be put down to outright
errors in the physics model (the front brake/front tire
grip in relation to drive produced by the engine and the
rear brake/rear tire grip is completely backwards).

- George

Dave Henri

** Motorsims Announces SCCA Trans-Am Sim **

by Dave Henri » Sun, 12 Dec 1999 04:00:00

  Folks have creamed AMA since it came out.  But I have to say.  the
Mid Ohio track is stunning.  Nobody else has come close to matching it.
if they can continue to produce class work like that, hopefully every
other little thing can be worked out.  
  For a real trip...fire up ICR2.  max out the graphics at Mid Ohio and
spin a few laps.  then get the updated demo of AMA and joyride around
the same track in AMA.  I"ll recomend using the 600, far easier to ride
in the insanity sections.
dave henrie


> >  It is a full 3d environment
> > here, you can go anywhere you want.  -anywhere-.

> Ummmmm.....They got Riverside in this one?  ;-))

> Sorry.  Couldn't help myself!!

> --
> Chuck Kandler  #70
> ChuckK or KS70 on Won.net
> K&S Racing
> http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
> The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!

don hodgdo

** Motorsims Announces SCCA Trans-Am Sim **

by don hodgdo » Sun, 12 Dec 1999 04:00:00


>I was under the impression that the Can-Am
>series folded after last season.  Can someone
>confirm that?

>-Chris-

>> Great news, but what happened to CanAm??

>> (worried)

>> Matt

Yes, the SCCA killed off the USRRC after three races of a 5 race season and
declared EFR and Butch Leitzinger co-champions of the Can Am class.
http://www.usrrc-series.com/press/99press07.html

don

[|]-(_)-[|]


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