rec.autos.simulators

by **The Black Cat =^..^** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:08:14

On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 16:52:38 GMT, "chainbreaker"

>it'd be damn near impossible to fix the outcome of a NASCAR race
>as tight as NASCAR's controls and inspections are, and with how
>even-handedly they apply the rules.

Unless NASCAR was the one doing the fixing... I like Junior, but
something was really odd about last night's race. His car simply
should not have been able to do the things it was doing with a legal
restrictor plate... Note that he could blow by cars any time he
pleased but whenever anyone else tried it on him, they failed every
time. Compare that to the words of Sterling Marlin -- and just about
every other driver -- who have said ever since the new rules package
came into effect -- that you simply cannot pass. That when you get
out on your own, you are dead meat. But Junior could pull away at
will and that's just not right.

by **The Black Cat =^..^** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:13:09

If his car hadn't been so totally ***, I would have enjoyed his
win a lot more, but when he just blew through the field at will the
way he did, it DETRACTED from his win as far as I'm concerned.

by **Sundow** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:17:57

Well I'll respond to my own post:

1. Tony Stewart's black flag was bullshit. But it was a Catch-22. He lost
positions by ignoring the black flag, but had he come in, and NASCR decided
that he was forced down, what do you do about that?

2. I was flying from Dallas during the race, so I only saw the last 14 laps.
I don't know how much DEJ dominated the race, but it just seemed fishy that
Tony Eury had written off his chances to win when Bill Weber interviewed
him, and then all of a sudden one of the most *** cars of the season
(Jeff Gordon) decides to blow up. And that blow up just happened to occur
during the part of the race where a single-file restart was guaranteed.

3. It does not matter whether or not the race was genuine or somehow fixed,
but you simply cannot blame a few people for thinking it was a ***. I
thought it was when I first saw it, especially seeing that his crew chief
had JUST written him off by saying "we probably won't win this one."

4. I think it also came down to F1-type team orders. Why? Because I would
have liked to seen the reaction had Michael Waltrip tried to pull out there
and race DEJ for the win. He would be Public Enemy #1. He'd be selfish and
non-appreciative that his car owner and DEJ helped him to win his only
points-paying NASCAR Winston Cup race, and his car owner died trying. And
I'll be willing to bet you that he probably wouldn't be working for DEI,
either. Ditto for Elliott Sadler had he been successful in getting around
Waltrip amd put some pressure on DEJ.

If ANYONE needs an example of what happens to a driver who bucks the NASCAR
system and tries to do things because they have a passion for racing, I only
offer you two words: Tim Richmond. The guy who OWNED Riverside and took
several Winston Cup wins isn't even muttered by anyone but the most
outspoken drivers. And that, my friend, is a damn shame.

Nevertheless, it was a win. Congrats to DEJ.

That's the way I see it,
Sundown

by **The Black Cat =^..^** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:22:00

On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 20:20:06 GMT, The Black Cat =^..^=

>When someone says they intentionally held back to block and
>let another car win, that detracts from the victory.

And one more thing -- what the heck was Waltrip doing parked in the
infield next to Junior after the race. Gotta grab that spotlight,
doncha Mikey?

by **The Black Cat =^..^** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:20:06

Right, like Jeff Gordon did with Kevin Harvick -- Harvick won the race
straight up and that's what made his win not only inspiring, but
great. When someone says they intentionally held back to block and
let another car win, that detracts from the victory.

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:02:39

by that I think he means he 'had' to manage his speed so NOT to get too
far ahead. As larry said, drafting is the key. Even if you are the
fastest car, if you totally separate from the pack, you lose the 'push' that
the front cars in draft situations get. And once the pack lines up for a
push tothe front, they will blow by the leader because he won't be
benefiting from the push/pull effect of the draft.
dave henrie

> I was wondering about that comment they made on the radio how he wasn't
> allowed to use full throttle because he was pulling away from the field.
I
> have never seen a dega or daytona race where the leader could easily pull
> away from the other drivers...Just doesn't seem right...normally you at
> least need a few buddies to go with you.

> JB

> > > On SportsCenter this morning, Jimmy Spencer said he was not surprised
> that
> > > Dale Earnhardt, Jr., won the Pepsi 400. Though he said that the #8 car
> was
> > > "fast here in February and in practice," he also said that "he wasn't
> > > surprised that (Dale Earnhardt, Jr.), won (the Pepsi 400), considering
> > what
> > > happened here in February."

> > > Could he be implying that he thinks that NASCAR had something to do
with
> > the
> > > outcome? What do you guys think?

> > Well, I suppose if someone just happened to get issued a restrictor
plate
> > with, say slightly larger openings than everyone else, then it just
might
> be
> > possible to stay out front just about all the race using only 3/4
> throttle.

> > That is, if NASCAR had any particular interest in seeing that any
> particular
> > driver had any particular advantage during that particular race. Which
> I'm
> > absolutely sure they didn't.

> > After all, it'd be damn near impossible to fix the outcome of a NASCAR
> race
> > as tight as NASCAR's controls and inspections are, and with how
> > even-handedly they apply the rules.

> > Jerry Morelock

by **ymenar** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:36:35

> And one more thing -- what the heck was Waltrip doing parked in the
> infield next to Junior after the race. Gotta grab that spotlight,
> doncha Mikey?

Stop whining for the sake of whining. Get a hold of yourself, for Christ's
sake!!!!

Oh and there's a better NG for you to talk about NASCAR-related
conspiracies.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Thom j** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:47:42

Ur too much Fran?ois!! No BS I am roaring again!! phew!!

| > And one more thing -- what the heck was Waltrip doing parked in the
| > infield next to Junior after the race. Gotta grab that spotlight,
| > doncha Mikey?

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by **Don Burnett** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:17:52

There was no way Michael would have tried to pass Jr for the win, not after
what happened in Feb, when Jr did the same for Michael , and then Dale lose
his life in that crash. Didn't you hear Jr tell Michael " Well, I guess were
even now"? As soon as I saw Michael tuck in behind Jr, I knew that was it
and they would finish 1-2. I was jumping up and down, and tearful on that
last lap.
I'm tickled Michael got to celebrate with Jr as he didn't really get to
celebrate his win of the 500.

Don Burnette

> What I didn't like is the fact that Waltrip didn't try to win. Isn't
> F1 criticized for "team orders"? Well this is just as bad when
> professional drivers aren't competing. Race to win.

> >On SportsCenter this morning, Jimmy Spencer said he was not surprised
that
> >Dale Earnhardt, Jr., won the Pepsi 400. Though he said that the #8 car
was
> >"fast here in February and in practice," he also said that "he wasn't
> >surprised that (Dale Earnhardt, Jr.), won (the Pepsi 400), considering
what
> >happened here in February."

> >Could he be implying that he thinks that NASCAR had something to do with
the
> >outcome? What do you guys think?

> >Also, what do you think about the black flag to Tony Stewart? I think he
was
> >forced down below the yellow line, and I would have ignored the black
flag
> >just like he did.

by **Don Burnett** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:19:59

I didn't see Jr able to pull away at will without the help of a draft. If he
hadn't had a couple cars work the outside line with him on that last restart
he would've been hung. However, last night, I am sure there were plenty of
drivers that would have been glad to draft with him.

Don Burnette

> On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 16:52:38 GMT, "chainbreaker"

> >it'd be damn near impossible to fix the outcome of a NASCAR race
> >as tight as NASCAR's controls and inspections are, and with how
> >even-handedly they apply the rules.

> Unless NASCAR was the one doing the fixing... I like Junior, but
> something was really odd about last night's race. His car simply
> should not have been able to do the things it was doing with a legal
> restrictor plate... Note that he could blow by cars any time he
> pleased but whenever anyone else tried it on him, they failed every
> time. Compare that to the words of Sterling Marlin -- and just about
> every other driver -- who have said ever since the new rules package
> came into effect -- that you simply cannot pass. That when you get
> out on your own, you are dead meat. But Junior could pull away at
> will and that's just not right.

by **Don Burnett** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:24:09

Ohhh pleaaseeee.
Michael's first Winston Cup points win at the Daytona 500 was completely
overshadowed by the tragedy of DE losing his life on the last lap, while his
son Jr helps draft Michael to the win.
Michael deserved to be able to celebrate with Jr, and I am sure Jr wouldn't
have had it any other way.

Don Burnette

> On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 20:20:06 GMT, The Black Cat =^..^=

> >When someone says they intentionally held back to block and
> >let another car win, that detracts from the victory.

> And one more thing -- what the heck was Waltrip doing parked in the
> infield next to Junior after the race. Gotta grab that spotlight,
> doncha Mikey?

by **Ron Ayto** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:38:39

IMO, the outcome was stacked in Little E's favour before the race even
started, well as stacked as it is possible for a race to be......
This race was nothing but a publicity stunt for NASCAR racing.
Little E's car had more power than any other car in the field, the
other driver's didn't race him as hard as they could/would have done in
differing circumstances and the whole thing stinks of a publicity
***.
I'd love to compare Little E's restrictor plate on a flow bench to the
other driver's plates..

Cheers,
Ron

> No ***, just a boy who had the commitment, desire, dedication,
and
> heart to win - with the help of a great car.

> I thought Stewart's black flag was wrong, I don't care for him but
seeing
> the replay he had no choice but to go below the yellow line.

> Don Burnette

> > On SportsCenter this morning, Jimmy Spencer said he was not
surprised that
> > Dale Earnhardt, Jr., won the Pepsi 400. Though he said that the #8
car was
> > "fast here in February and in practice," he also said that "he
wasn't
> > surprised that (Dale Earnhardt, Jr.), won (the Pepsi 400),
considering
> what
> > happened here in February."

> > Could he be implying that he thinks that NASCAR had something to do
with
> the
> > outcome? What do you guys think?

> > Also, what do you think about the black flag to Tony Stewart? I
think he
> was
> > forced down below the yellow line, and I would have ignored the
black flag
> > just like he did.

by **David Star** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:45:29

On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 20:08:14 GMT, The Black Cat =^..^=
Compare that to the words of Sterling Marlin -- and just about

How do you explain all the drivers that went from the back to the
front? If you simply cannot pass, then the finishing results would be
the same as the starting lineup.

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Professional Shop Rat: 36 years in an auto plant.
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by **David Star** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:49:21

You're right. If his car was as good as some claim, he would have
lapped the field.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Professional Shop Rat: 36 years in an auto plant.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

by **Bob Davidso** » Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:50:12

I'm not sure where to respond on this absurd thread but I might as
well interject here. Did Dale Jr. set some kind of speed record? How
were his speeds as opposed to the last race at Daytona? How were his
speeds as opposed to the rest of the drivers? How was his qualifying
time? If he had a bogus restrictor plate I assume his speeds might be
noticibly beyond those of the other drivers.

If Jimmy Spencer's comments are meant to detract from Dale Jr's
accomplishment just remember that Jimmy gets a little carried away
sometimes (see his remarks/accusations about Mike McLauglin after the
Subway 300). Jimmy apparently has a very competetive nature and and
goes a bit sour grapes when things aren't going his way.

There are so many intervening factors in a race with 43 competitors
that it would be virtually impossible to fix a race, keep it secret
and still achieve the ultimate result you desire. If anything I think
DEI just knows a good setup for Daytona. Elsewise, NASCAR also gave
Michael Waltrip a bogus plate as well as Eliott Sadler. And I guess
they gave Jeff Gordon one with real little holes this time!

BD

On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 16:52:38 GMT, "chainbreaker"

>> On SportsCenter this morning, Jimmy Spencer said he was not surprised that
>> Dale Earnhardt, Jr., won the Pepsi 400. Though he said that the #8 car was
>> "fast here in February and in practice," he also said that "he wasn't
>> surprised that (Dale Earnhardt, Jr.), won (the Pepsi 400), considering
>what
>> happened here in February."

>> Could he be implying that he thinks that NASCAR had something to do with
>the
>> outcome? What do you guys think?

>Well, I suppose if someone just happened to get issued a restrictor plate
>with, say slightly larger openings than everyone else, then it just might be
>possible to stay out front just about all the race using only 3/4 throttle.

>That is, if NASCAR had any particular interest in seeing that any particular
>driver had any particular advantage during that particular race. Which I'm
>absolutely sure they didn't.

>After all, it'd be damn near impossible to fix the outcome of a NASCAR race
>as tight as NASCAR's controls and inspections are, and with how
>even-handedly they apply the rules.

>Jerry Morelock

rec.autos.simulators

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?

NASCAR Pepsi 400 a Conspiracy?