rec.autos.simulators

Jim, Adam, ...

I just finished reading a post (Pissin match) about curved pit roads.  Jim,
save your breath.  4 responses won't help if someone has no idea what is
involved in the coding process.  

Let's take N2 for what it is at face value.  A great game, with some bugs
to work out, just like any other.  Microsoft has thousands of programmers,
and 1-1/2 years after 95's release, the SR2, in my mind, created more
problems than the original release had. (with the service pack installed).
I'll bet that video card Mfgr's just loved the changes in the display
properties applet.  I don't beleive there are thousand's of developers
working on N2, and as much as I would like to see the game look like the in
car camera on ESPN, it isn't going to happen for a while.

For those people complaining, If we want to look for things to complain
about, (and there are several), we should concentrate on those things that
are real problems to gameplay.  A curved pit road is really a small price
to pay.

Number one on my list is that everyone knows that there are problems in N2
that I'm sure Papy allready fixed and they could send out a patch for many
small bugs and let those of us who do play the game, have the annoying
simple problems resolved. I've watched this group for quite a while and
most of the things that bother people, look like simple fixes in the code
to me.  I would guess that 90% of the things people have complained about
in RAS have allready been fixed, we just cant have the code in hand until
You guys (Papy) give it to us.  So we play the buggy first release.  I for
one, by the way, am happy to have the buggy first release.

Things like the leaders pitting with 1 to go and the rear view mirror's
blind spot being the size of Texas.  The Imfamous save game everyone wants.
 Cyrix joystick problems. Multiplayer Chat, Etc.  Some of the AI fixes must
be easy to impliment.  Other things like track conditions, ie, being able
to pass on the High side, would be real nice, just a little more difficult
to do because of all the tracks  needing changes.  I see guys pass on the
high side every week in Nascar.  I've NEVER passed on the outside on Hawaii
unless a car wrecked in the infield!

I don't know about most of the people out there, but I can speak for myself
and at least 5 friends who almost never play N2 just because of the
problems we've had with the AI.  We used to run a lot of races 50% and + in
N1 (Modem Play), we simply don't run them any more.  personally, I don't
want to play N1 again.  I find the transition from N2 to N1 so hard that I
won't play on Hawaii any more just because I can't compete.  I could if I
wanted to spend the time in N1.  I don't want to.  My interest in the NRO
is fading.  Looking at the cost and knowing that it'll be months till it
gets going.  Then I'll still have to pay long distance, and I'm sure that
wont change for a LONG time in my area.  I'm sure I'm not the only person
with this kind of attitude and if anything is a nail in the coffin, it's
loss of interest.  

How many people out there would really care if we had to put up with 3 or 4
patches???  I would be thrilled to see something a little more concrete
from You guys.  How about a patch that fixes a FEW minor issues, with a
readme file that says,  "We fixed problems A, B, C, & D.  We are working On
E, F, G ...  They will get attention at a later date.  Don't like it, play
the original game with problems ABC n D. "  

IMHO, Hawaii is the thing that made Nascar Racing such a craze.  Also the
thing that sold Nascar 2.  I realize that a bulk of the current work is
related to the NRO development.  Perhaps the changes being made that are
related to the NRO are so interwoven into the smaller issues I read about
on RAS, that a intermediate patch would be more trouble than it's worth.  I
would think that the little AI fixes would be a prerequisite to development
on the the MP stuff but who knows.

At a very minimum,  at least post a list of items that You guys recognized
as problems and fixed for the Upcomming patch, whenever it is released.  

By the way,  a note for your developers....  Microsoft has this thing
called Visual Basic.  Along with Direct X, I'll bet it would really make
things easy for ya.  HeHe.  YukYuk.

----------------------------------------------------------------
The United States Government allows You to buy
a home and call it your own, as long as You
continue to buy it back from them, each year...

Phil Bower, Micro-Second Computers

The mirrors are adjustable in the track.txt file (Look in the New
England file for REM'd out lines that will make the mirrors more like
N1 if that's what you prefer. The trade-off is you can't tell how far
away a car is those mirrors, but you have less blind spot.)

The leaders pitting on white flag will probably stay as is for now.

That's being considered for the patch.

That's a Cyrix hardware compatibility problem (their CPU doesn't
support the Pentium RDTSC instruction, which is needed by our "more
accurate" joystick routines. On the Cyrix (and other 486's), we have
to use the "less accurate" joystick routines, which are fine, so long
as you aren't doing DMA...)

I'm not sure what the exact issue here is... (i.e. exactly why N2
doesn't have it) I can make some estimations, but I can't really
comment much on this one.

That was the original plan (two patches, one very quick one for some
of the easy items, and another more comprehensive patch.) Due to some
production problems with the international versions and some
unexpected engineering problems with portions of the "first" patch,
we've decided to release a single, more comprehensive patch. (The
decision to release a single patch has delayed the release of ANY
patch by LESS THAN two weeks, and I think that's the right decision to
make.)

N1 had probably sold well over 500,000 units before Hawaii was
unveiled.

The current NRO work, which you correctly estimate is going full-bore,
is independent of the work on the patch. The patch is not delaying
NRO, nor is NRO delaying the patch. Totally different groups of
engineers.

I'd like to, but even I don't know all of the details at this point
(someone else is "in charge" of N2, and I've just contributed little
bits and pieces here and there) I think you'll get the patch before
you get the list of what's in the patch.

---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Its been almost 4 months now and they are just considering the save
game ...... give me a break.  Papyrus is on the way down the tubes
along with Sierra.

On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:24:19 -0800, Jeff Hedges

---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking...  Did he complain
to five or six postmasters last month?  Now, you must ask yourself one
question: "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, do you, punk?

--
Header address intentionaly scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Wouldn't concern me whether it was 3 weeks or 3 months.  The "delay" hasn't
stopped my enjoyment of the sim and at least Papyrus ARE producing a patch.
--
Bruce #31
"....and if I'm not mistaken....and I AM mistaken...."
(Murray Walker)
VRE Site: http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/vegemiteracing/index.htm
The STUNNED MULLET:
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/StunnedMullet/index.htm

Hey mom look at me, I can get on the Internet and make an ass of
myself!  Also, was it really necessary to quote his entire 80 line
post?  

--

The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative
http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html-ssi
http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/

  Basically what you're saying is "Tell us when the patch will be out.
I don't care that you don't know exactly what's going to be in it, or
exactly how much work has to be done.  Just give us a date, set it in
stone, and tell us how far along the patch is."

  And of course, if the patch is a day late, you won't be ***ing that
they "lied" about when it will be out, will you?

  News for you--writing code (or patching code) is like designing a new
weapon system--you're trying to invent something on a timeline.  But
inventing something (or fixing code) isn't a cut and dried process.
Stuff comes up.  Sometimes fixing one problem creates another.  But
nobody knows that until they start working on it.

  So, with all those variables in play, you're not mature enough to wait
until they get the friggin thing done.  You want your toy, and you want
it _now_--"Create perfection, and damn quick.  And tell me exactly when
you'll create it."

  Remember that Papy was not created just to give you toys when you
demand them.  And just because they're not saying the exact day the
patch will be ready, doesn't mean that they're not working on it.  But
software companies have learned the hard way that some people are
impatient SOB's.  If they announce a patch date, and that date has to
slip, the same people who *** and moan about not having a date would
*** and moan that the date turned out to be wrong.

  In short, grow up, get a life, and get a clue.

--
   Scott

Very few companies will state dates because, quite frankly, they almost
never release a game on time.  id for example, has the classic 'when
it's done' or the next Quakeworld release which has been 'two weeks'
off for quite some time now.  It's just the nature of the business,
learn to live with it.  

First everyone complains that N2 wasn't released on time, then they
whine about the bugs when it was released.  I for one would rather
Papyrus had held the game and not released it until the bugs have been
eliminated.  It is my hope that this will hold true of the patch.

--

The IWCCCARS Project: Q & A Representative
http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/index.html-ssi
http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/