straights, the wheel does not pull to left. But upon entering a turn, the
pull comes into play. This, in my opinion, would be easy to implement and
would solve the problem.
Brian
Brian
best of luck
edb
Any pilot will tell you that if a real plane were actually as hard to land
as a flight sim plane, they wouldn't fly. The same goes for our hobby. If we
crashed in real life as much as we do in N4, then this newsgroup would be
small indeed!
Adjusting the camber to eliminate the pull is not a viable solution, for as
you mentioned, performance will suffer. The fact is that modern day wheels
do not give us the same degree of fine control we would have in a real car;
hence the need to compensate somehow for the left pull. Maybe a FF wheel
handles it better, but that too is a cheat because I understand that a FF
wheel does not try to return to center.
Brian
> best of luck
> edb
> > I think it would be a good idea for Papy to code the sim so that on the
> > straights, the wheel does not pull to left. But upon entering a turn,
the
> > pull comes into play. This, in my opinion, would be easy to implement
and
> > would solve the problem.
> > Brian
My argument is that this is just the way the game should be if it is going
to be a "sim". I know a lot of guys are struggling with this issue, but we
demanded a more realistic sim and Papy delivered, now they're taking the
heat for it. We got exactly what we wanted and I just don't understand all
the complaining.
I've been running it a few hours a day since I got my first copy Saturday
(bought 2 since for remote dedicated server use) and to be honest, I am
already beyond the "pull" issue and after firing up N3 last night for a
while, like N4 a ton better.
I look at it this way, since this realease and its tunability that has
created this "pull", the likelyhood of racing against guys playing with
keyboards has gone to nill. ;)
Lets agree to disagree, I think the latest NR will be great when all the
real bugs are squashed, and most people will end up understanding that the
"pull" is a desriable characteristic.
Best of luck to you,
edb
PS: Just don't race at the big tracks right off and you won't have the
trouble, the fast setups for say Bristol, Phoenix, road courses, etc don't
have the "pull" in them. Want to learn how to "ease" into dealing with it,
run the fast setups at C***te (its Lowes, I know, but its one of my home
state tracks, old habits ya know) and/or Texas. These are less severe and
could help you understand how to "compensate" for it better.
> Any pilot will tell you that if a real plane were actually as hard to land
> as a flight sim plane, they wouldn't fly. The same goes for our hobby. If
we
> crashed in real life as much as we do in N4, then this newsgroup would be
> small indeed!
> Adjusting the camber to eliminate the pull is not a viable solution, for
as
> you mentioned, performance will suffer. The fact is that modern day wheels
> do not give us the same degree of fine control we would have in a real
car;
> hence the need to compensate somehow for the left pull. Maybe a FF wheel
> handles it better, but that too is a cheat because I understand that a FF
> wheel does not try to return to center.
> Brian
> > Yeah, but then you're taking the "sim" out of simulation. This is the
way
> > real stock cars react when setup properly on such speedways as Daytona,
> > Talledega, etc. If you don't like it then adjust your camber (I beleive
> this
> > is the setting) so as to correct the suspension settings that are
causing
> > this so called "problem". Be aware that drivers that can adjust to this
> > setup will be quicker around the track than you.
> > best of luck
> > edb
> > > I think it would be a good idea for Papy to code the sim so that on
the
> > > straights, the wheel does not pull to left. But upon entering a turn,
> the
> > > pull comes into play. This, in my opinion, would be easy to implement
> and
> > > would solve the problem.
> > > Brian
--
-------------------------------------
Morgan Vincent Wooten
GPLRank: +10.02
http://home.earthlink.net/~morganv00/
-------------------------------------
Although I'm sure some did not like this in Nascar 3, I thought the
"side-view" section of the rear-view mirror was an effective way to overcome
the peripheral vision issue. Someone mentioned to me that you can get that
in N4, but all I see is detail level settings and toggling the inside cage.
Not to be argumentative - just tossing around some ideas that might help to
overcome sim limitations.
Brian
> My argument is that this is just the way the game should be if it is going
> to be a "sim". I know a lot of guys are struggling with this issue, but we
> demanded a more realistic sim and Papy delivered, now they're taking the
> heat for it. We got exactly what we wanted and I just don't understand all
> the complaining.
> I've been running it a few hours a day since I got my first copy Saturday
> (bought 2 since for remote dedicated server use) and to be honest, I am
> already beyond the "pull" issue and after firing up N3 last night for a
> while, like N4 a ton better.
> I look at it this way, since this realease and its tunability that has
> created this "pull", the likelyhood of racing against guys playing with
> keyboards has gone to nill. ;)
> Lets agree to disagree, I think the latest NR will be great when all the
> real bugs are squashed, and most people will end up understanding that the
> "pull" is a desriable characteristic.
> Best of luck to you,
> edb
> PS: Just don't race at the big tracks right off and you won't have the
> trouble, the fast setups for say Bristol, Phoenix, road courses, etc don't
> have the "pull" in them. Want to learn how to "ease" into dealing with it,
> run the fast setups at C***te (its Lowes, I know, but its one of my
home
> state tracks, old habits ya know) and/or Texas. These are less severe and
> could help you understand how to "compensate" for it better.
> > No matter how you slice it, we are only driving a sim and therefore we
are
> > at an extreme disadvantage in terms of control and situational
awareness.
> > The sense of "feel" and balance, along with peripheral vision is missing
> in
> > a sim, and in my opinion, to be realistic, these missing factors must be
> > compensated for.
> > Any pilot will tell you that if a real plane were actually as hard to
land
> > as a flight sim plane, they wouldn't fly. The same goes for our hobby.
If
> we
> > crashed in real life as much as we do in N4, then this newsgroup would
be
> > small indeed!
> > Adjusting the camber to eliminate the pull is not a viable solution, for
> as
> > you mentioned, performance will suffer. The fact is that modern day
wheels
> > do not give us the same degree of fine control we would have in a real
> car;
> > hence the need to compensate somehow for the left pull. Maybe a FF wheel
> > handles it better, but that too is a cheat because I understand that a
FF
> > wheel does not try to return to center.
> > Brian
> > > Yeah, but then you're taking the "sim" out of simulation. This is the
> way
> > > real stock cars react when setup properly on such speedways as
Daytona,
> > > Talledega, etc. If you don't like it then adjust your camber (I
beleive
> > this
> > > is the setting) so as to correct the suspension settings that are
> causing
> > > this so called "problem". Be aware that drivers that can adjust to
this
> > > setup will be quicker around the track than you.
> > > best of luck
> > > edb
> > > > I think it would be a good idea for Papy to code the sim so that on
> the
> > > > straights, the wheel does not pull to left. But upon entering a
turn,
> > the
> > > > pull comes into play. This, in my opinion, would be easy to
implement
> > and
> > > > would solve the problem.
> > > > Brian
Brian
> > Brian
Not all tracks are the same, and your method (fudge-calibration ?) can't
possibly work at all tracks the same way.
-Larry
> --
> -------------------------------------
> Morgan Vincent Wooten
> GPLRank: +10.02
> http://home.earthlink.net/~morganv00/
> -------------------------------------
> > I think it would be a good idea for Papy to code the sim so that on the
> > straights, the wheel does not pull to left. But upon entering a turn,
the
> > pull comes into play. This, in my opinion, would be easy to implement
and
> > would solve the problem.
> > Brian
Not EVERYTHING real transfers to a Sim well. This is one of them.
You are only taking into your experience with your controller.
You take a FF wheel and disable FF (so it uses centering) or use a non FF
wheel and you will understand why some find this an issue.
-Larry
> best of luck
> edb
> > I think it would be a good idea for Papy to code the sim so that on the
> > straights, the wheel does not pull to left. But upon entering a turn,
the
> > pull comes into play. This, in my opinion, would be easy to implement
and
> > would solve the problem.
> > Brian
--
-------------------------------------
Morgan Vincent Wooten
GPLRank: +10.02
http://home.earthlink.net/~morganv00/
-------------------------------------
> Not all tracks are the same, and your method (fudge-calibration ?) can't
> possibly work at all tracks the same way.
> -Larry
> > There's no problem in the first place. Just recalibrate your wheel to take
> > advantage of the left-ward pull and get used to it. It's working great for
> me.
> > --
> > -------------------------------------
> > Morgan Vincent Wooten
> > GPLRank: +10.02
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~morganv00/
> > -------------------------------------
> > > I think it would be a good idea for Papy to code the sim so that on the
> > > straights, the wheel does not pull to left. But upon entering a turn,
> the
> > > pull comes into play. This, in my opinion, would be easy to implement
> and
> > > would solve the problem.
> > > Brian
Maybe a FF wheel
FF a cheat ? That's a new one. The great thing about Papy FF is that
the wheel tells what the front wheels are doing, and when going down
the straights the wheel feels centered, even if it's not. So IMHO a FF
is the best and most realistic solution to what some people call a
problem, but is nothing else than a feature missing from older sims :)
--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
> Maybe a FF wheel
> > handles it better, but that too is a cheat because I understand that a
FF
> > wheel does not try to return to center.
> FF a cheat ? That's a new one. The great thing about Papy FF is that
> the wheel tells what the front wheels are doing, and when going down
> the straights the wheel feels centered, even if it's not. So IMHO a FF
> is the best and most realistic solution to what some people call a
> problem, but is nothing else than a feature missing from older sims :)
> --
> Olav K. Malmin
> remove .spam when replying
My problem with the T2 is that no matter how I set linearity and steering
ratio, I get over-steering when trying to compensate for the left pull. The
pot seems to be good as there is little jumping on the calibration screen.
Oh well, the pull to left can be gotten used to, and ultimately I think it's
a good thing. What I can't get used to is the stupidity of the AI, or should
I say "ai" drivers. They seem to be mindless robots just like in previous
versions. Surprising, since this is 2001 and it's not that hard to write
code for object avoidance. That's my only disappointment with this sim.
Brian
> I finally unplugged my T2 and got a LWFF in December. Very difficult
> to get the feel of it, but once I did I loved it (I played more Heat
> in December and January than I've ever played a driving sim).
> I didn't play the N4 demo much, and when it was released the pull
> drove me nuts - at first. I haven't got as much time in with N4 as
> most, but I've gotten a bit used to it and I find that I'm actually
> beginning to rely on the pull.
> I ran laps at Pocono until I felt more comfortable with the different
> driving model. I like that track, and the 3 different corners seem to
> be a good challenge to learn how the car responds in different
> situations. I used to love Heat, but when I fire it up now it just
> doesn't seem as good.
> Anyway, just my thoughts on a similar situation :) Good luck!