So-called "revival" of simracing : blah!

rFactor : 40, perhaps 50 people online MAX at peak times. Leagues are careful not to switch yet. Plenty of "possibilities" for mods but how many of them will 1) ever see the finish light 2) be of an actual quality and 3) be worth if it there's nobody racing them? GTL : Great cars on washed out neutered tracks. Still the old ISI game engine filled up with bugs. 3 months of fun then we move on to whatever's next as developpers don't support it per low sales of it. NR2003/GPL : still pumping out the races, but how long with the Sierra servers be kept alive? GTR : Read what I wrote in GTL but start with "Great modern cars". LfS : :-| So hmm what's next? iRacing? GTR2? Some miraculous other sim? People actually start RACING rFactor? Or we just die like the flightsim community? My pick : the last one. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 02:29:24 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >My pick : the last one. How about the racing sims on consoles getting more and more serious? GT4, RBR and Enthusia are a big step in the right direction. For some reason I never liked GTR, too much bugs and after F1C (which I loved) I really got tired of having to tweak numerous .ini files to fix all the bugs. After that it's really a delight to put a dvd in the ps2 and just race.. Andre

Please send me your unwanted copy of GTL. I'll happily reimburse you for whatever you paid, plus postage. Bruce ymenard wrote: > > GTL : Great cars on washed out neutered tracks. Still the old ISI game > engine filled up with bugs. 3 months of fun then we move on to whatever's > next as developpers don't support it per low sales of it.

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 02:29:24 -0400, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >My pick : the last one. > > How about the racing sims on consoles getting more and more serious? > GT4, RBR and Enthusia are a big step in the right direction. > For some reason I never liked GTR, too much bugs and after F1C (which > I loved) I really got tired of having to tweak numerous .ini files to > fix all the bugs. After that it's really a delight to put a dvd in the > ps2 and just race.. >

Maybe for you......I will never use the PS2 for anything, it's a toy for my kids.

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fZI2f.4032$[email hidden]... > > LfS : :-| > Having come from "way back"(first post in '93), I actually enjoy LFS. It's the only sim left on my hard drive now. It fits my limited time schedule, which is important as my talents peaked about a year after GPL then started to slide as my available time dropped. The pick-up races are surprisingly good (less and less idiots on the public servers) and you can usually find someone at your level to race, the driving model is convincing for all but the fastest cars, and the newest tracks have some interesting corner combinations. It's also quite friendly on my "not quite bleeding edge" equipment. Some of the best fun I've had recently was a pick-up race with a pack of "Minis", where everyone raced clean, fair and hard. Stephen

Frank, I can't believe you've played GTL and actually have that opinion, there is nothing old ISI engine about it. Chad "Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:434b745b$[email hidden]...

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> > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:fZI2f.4032$[email hidden]... >> >> LfS : :-| >> > > Having come from "way back"(first post in '93), I actually enjoy LFS. > It's the only sim left on my hard drive now. It fits my limited time > schedule, which is important as my talents peaked about a year after GPL > then started to slide as my available time dropped. The pick-up races are > surprisingly good (less and less idiots on the public servers) and you can > usually find someone at your level to race, the driving model is > convincing for all but the fastest cars, and the newest tracks have some > interesting corner combinations. It's also quite friendly on my "not > quite bleeding edge" equipment. Some of the best fun I've had recently > was a pick-up race with a pack of "Minis", where everyone raced clean, > fair and hard. > > Stephen > >

I think part of the issue is the number of descent racing games out there are splitting up the potential field of online players. Another issue is that as racing sims get more accurate, there will be little difference in the "feel" of the various games. The differences will be which cars and tracks are available, and the extra features like graphics, sounds, AI behavior, replays, career mode, ... . For example, by the time LFS S3 is released, it probably won't seem significantly different than other racing sims released by that time. The last issue I can think of right now is that the newness of online gaming in general is gone, so there is just less interest. > NR2003/GPL : still pumping out the races, but how long with the Sierra servers be kept alive? NR2003 online 300 (weekdays) to 500 (weekends) players online, 90% of them racing super speedways, the no skill required tracks, which is why they are probably so popular. (OK, so you do need to learn how to avoid wrecks and pit well). GTP mod for NR2003 - a few Eurpoean leagues for this one, but I'm in the USA (wrong time zone). GPL - I never saw that many players on VROC, but I probably discovered out about GPL too late. GTR / GTL - I expect these games like most others, to be popular for a few months after release, and then for interest to wane. LFS - an unusually loyal fan base. Haven't played online in quite a while so I can't state how many players are actively online. F1C99-02 - Another game I like, but rarely played online, so I don't know how popular it was. Just like the real thing, I would imagine passing would be difficult. Rally sims - I've never seen or played RBR. I do have Collin McRae Rally 2005, but only played it a few times. Just can't get motivated with rally style driving. Non-sim racing games, for example, NFS Underground 2. 1000 players on the first night of the demo, but the released game split up US and EU servers, and not there's maybe 50 players at most on the US server. Like many players, I spend most of my gaming time offline as opposed to online. I think most GPL players probably fit into this category, hot lapping for a GPL rank as opposed to online racing. My guess is that most active NR2003 players are online. With the rest of the racing sims, it's somewhere between the GPL and NR2003 extremes.

> Non-sim racing games, for example, NFS Underground 2. 1000 players on > the first night of the demo, but the released game split up US and > EU servers, and not there's maybe 50 players at most on the US server. EU servers, and now there's maybe 50 players at most on the US server.

Jeff Reid wrote: > > LFS - an unusually loyal fan base. Haven't played online in quite a while > so I can't state how many players are actively online. A bunch of wankers who run around slagging off other sims over on RSC.

> So hmm what's next? iRacing? GTR2? Some miraculous other sim? People > actually start RACING rFactor? Or we just die like the flightsim > community? > > > My pick : the last one. RIP

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 02:29:24 -0400, "ymenard" >> <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >My pick : the last one. >> >> How about the racing sims on consoles getting more and more serious? >> GT4, RBR and Enthusia are a big step in the right direction. >> For some reason I never liked GTR, too much bugs and after F1C (which >> I loved) I really got tired of having to tweak numerous .ini files to >> fix all the bugs. After that it's really a delight to put a dvd in the >> ps2 and just race.. >> > > Maybe for you......I will never use the PS2 for anything, it's a toy for > my kids. >

Now theres logic, ... "I won't use it because it doesn't say 'built for daddies too'............."

>Maybe for you......I will never use the PS2 for anything, it's a toy for my kids. I never thought much about consoles too, untill two years ago I bought the PS2, mostly because of the Final Fantasy games, and because pc-gaming was dying rapidly. After that I discovered the fun of not having to tweak for hours to get a game running smoothly, and sitting on the couch instead of behind a desk. Also imho games on consoles have much more quality too, cleary much more time and money goes into the making of console-games. I think the sim-racing world would be in awe if something like Enthusia or GT4 would be released for the PC, unfortunately consoles still have the name of being for kids only, hence a lot if people are missing out on some superb sims. Have you ever tried Enthusia by the way? Rent it, hook up your Momo to your PS2 and you'll experience what I'm talking about :) Andre

It will never be like it was YM, your finally getting older and see what us 40 year olds been saying for 20 years, "Aint nuttin like what we usedta-could" It is a crying shame, when Papy-sierra servers go poof, that is going to be the end of an era. Next gen consoles, will finnish off PC games, I'm bettin you. Sickening as I get older to realize (more than I did) that my lower end (cheaper) video-card cost about double what the goddam consoles sell for... ymenard enlightened us with:

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> rFactor : 40, perhaps 50 people online MAX at peak times. Leagues are > careful not to switch yet. Plenty of "possibilities" for mods but > how many of them will 1) ever see the finish light 2) be of an > actual quality and 3) be worth if it there's nobody racing them? > > GTL : Great cars on washed out neutered tracks. Still the old ISI > game engine filled up with bugs. 3 months of fun then we move on to > whatever's next as developpers don't support it per low sales of it. > > NR2003/GPL : still pumping out the races, but how long with the Sierra > servers be kept alive? > > GTR : Read what I wrote in GTL but start with "Great modern cars". > > LfS : :-| > > > > > So hmm what's next? iRacing? GTR2? Some miraculous other sim? People > actually start RACING rFactor? Or we just die like the > flightsim community? > > My pick : the last one. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

In article <yVK2f.3459$[email hidden]>, s_h_b_1970 @hotmail.com says...

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> Jeff Reid wrote: > > > > > LFS - an unusually loyal fan base. Haven't played online in quite a while > > so I can't state how many players are actively online. > > A bunch of wankers who run around slagging off other sims over on RSC. >

The same could be said (the 'slagging' not the 'wankers' part) of the rFactor section. Or the GPL section. Or the NR2003 section... etc. RSC is an inbred (I'M NOT CALLING THEM INBRED REDNECKS) fed community. Actual discussion of the merits and flaws of opposing sims seems to be discouraged (by each sub-forums community - not the moderators as such.) My hat is in with LFS. I *like* the totally closed-off-locked-up system. I'm not comfortable with Joe Blow, that has driven his aunts Corsica around Walmart parking lot at 4am on a Sunday, messing with ini 'values' because he 'knows how a car should handle' (slight exaggeration :) ). I like that the 3 programmers keep a tight rein on their 'baby' and seem to be trying to produce the most accurate physics that they can. Sure, it isn't there yet but it seem like it will get there sooner than later. LFS has some very nice tracks too. Aston and Westhill are a joy to drive. A lot of very nice corners and corner combinations. MRSisson -- LOAD "GPL",8 SEARCHING FOR GPL LOADING READY. RUN

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > RSC is an inbred (I'M NOT CALLING THEM INBRED REDNECKS) fed community. > Actual discussion of the merits and flaws of opposing sims seems to be > discouraged (by each sub-forums community - not the moderators as such.) > I would like to edit this to say : Web forums/subforums or newsgroups centered on one game/sim are inbred fed communities. RSC should not be singled out. Sorry. MRSisson -- LOAD "GPL",8 SEARCHING FOR GPL LOADING READY. RUN

"Dave" <[email hidden]> news:[email hidden] Got on his soap box and said: > > Maybe for you......I will never use the PS2 for anything, it's a toy > for my kids. > You might want to take a look at yourself and ask who the kid is... Although out of all my consoles the PS2 as at the bottom of the list in terms of how much it is played and how much I like it. But it does have RBR and GT4 with FFB. -- My Games Collection: http://www.fooatari.plus.com/ Games Blog- http://foosgaming.blogspot.com Motorsport Blog- http://foosmotorsport.blogspot.com

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 02:29:24 -0400, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >My pick : the last one. > > How about the racing sims on consoles getting more and more serious? > GT4, RBR and Enthusia are a big step in the right direction. > For some reason I never liked GTR, too much bugs and after F1C (which > I loved) I really got tired of having to tweak numerous .ini files to > fix all the bugs. After that it's really a delight to put a dvd in the > ps2 and just race.. > > Andre >

So where are you going to put the steering wheel? Once you have to physically sit at a specific location, ie. not on your sofa in front of the tv, because that's the only place your steering wheel is able to be fixed, then surely that detracts from the what the ps2 is all about. And there's no way I'm going to use paddles to play, other than for a bit of light-entertainment. If I'm serious about sim racing then I want a proper, fixed, wheel and pedals setup. As yet, does something like that actually exist for game consoles? -- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

Never say never. Today the consoles arent an option for me either. Someday that may not be the case though. When a console can run high res with all the accessories I can use now (wheels, sticks etc) I'd actually much prefer $3-400 for a console vs $1000-2000 for a high end PC. Today isnt the day though ;) Mitch "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Maybe for you......I will never use the PS2 for anything, it's a toy for > my kids. > >

Gotta differ with you guys about N2003 - whether you race superspeedways (as I do) or any other type of track, there are plenty of regular, consistent race series going on all the time. Just gotta hook up with the right people - and show them what you can do on the track. As far as superspeedways not requiring any driving skill, tell that to the 8/10 and 9/10 racers out there. They will slice and dice you at their leisure. People don't get the higher ratings without putting real time in finding how to handle the car in the low and high lines. Maybe it's not a skill you wish to acquire, but it is DEFINATELY a skill.

> As far as superspeedways not requiring any driving skill, Never having raced superspeedways before, I had my first win on my second online session. I don't think this could happen with any other racing sim, or with the road courses in NR2003. It would take a lot longer than just two sessions to run 1:14's at Watkins Glen, the time that most fast players run at. > As far as superspeedways not requiring any driving skill, tell that to > the 8/10 and 9/10 racers out there. The only driving skill I see is during qualification and pitting. Just need to qualify near the front to be able to avoid wrecks and win. Most of the 8/10 and 9/10 players work with a group or team, and this is very difficult to beat as an individual. The team or group work together in pitting and getting back into a draft after pitting, which is the key factor for winning a race (and wreck avoidance). In order to get a rating of 7 or 8, the main thing is to race in a large field (30+ players), and finish in the top 7 or so. Getting to a 6 on an open server isn't that difficult (takes me two nights). Getting to a 7 or 8 is best done on an FLMS server with a minimum of 6 rating. FLMS also has a minimum 7 rating server, but it's not very popular anymore since they added a 6 server also. Regarding the inside versus outside line, the standard speedway tracks favor the inside line. Only a cooperating group or team can make the outside line work.

This LFS stuff is a big off topic, but here's my take on LFS.

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>> Jeff Reid wrote: >> > LFS - an unusually loyal fan base. Haven't played online in quite a while >> > so I can't state how many players are actively online. >> >> A bunch of wankers who run around slagging off other sims over on RSC. > The same could be said (the 'slagging' not the 'wankers' part) of the > rFactor section. Or the GPL section. Or the NR2003 section... etc.

I think some LFS fans are just a bit too fanatic. From looking at the forum threads, the amount of flaming that occurs after any complaint about a games physics was highest in the LFS sections. I never got the impression from the other game sections that the players of that game thought that their game's physics didn't have any flaws. Many GPL fans used to think that GPL was the best simulation ever, but were also willing to admit GPL had some physics / setup bugs. > 3 programmers With such a small team, LFS is destined to fall behind other sims by the time LFS S3 is released. Also, only a small number of cars in LFS get any actual real world feedback. I still feel that the tire physics isn't right, and wonder if the team ever got any actual slip angle versus lateral force curves for the various types of tires used in actual racing, specifically, bias ply racing tires used in most non-downforce racing classes, which lose very little grip when pushed past the limits. In my own testing, steering beyond the max on LFS S2's LX6 can reduce the cornering forces from 1.15g's to below .8g's, far more than what a real racing tire would do. > tight rein One of the issues some (like me) have with LFS is that slicks aren't allowed on more cars than currently allowed within the game. There is a slick for all cars mod for LFS S1 and S2 alpha, so obviously there is a demand for this. If this is supposed to be a racing simulator (not just a fun run simulator), then model the tires actually used in racing of these cars. Most racing classes allow slicks on some events, and for some spec classes, the restriction is to DOT racing tires. LFS doesn't have the equivalent of a DOT racing tire yet.

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fZI2f.4032$[email hidden]...

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> rFactor : 40, perhaps 50 people online MAX at peak times. Leagues are > careful not to switch yet. Plenty of "possibilities" for mods but how > many of them will 1) ever see the finish light 2) be of an actual quality > and 3) be worth if it there's nobody racing them? > > GTL : Great cars on washed out neutered tracks. Still the old ISI game > engine filled up with bugs. 3 months of fun then we move on to whatever's > next as developpers don't support it per low sales of it. > > NR2003/GPL : still pumping out the races, but how long with the Sierra > servers be kept alive? > > GTR : Read what I wrote in GTL but start with "Great modern cars". > > LfS : :-| > > > > > So hmm what's next? iRacing? GTR2? Some miraculous other sim? People > actually start RACING rFactor? Or we just die like the flightsim > community? > > > My pick : the last one. >

Once rFactor has tracks that appeal to all and mods that appeal to all (F1, Champ cars, Daytona Prototypes, Aussie V8 Supercars, Euro GT stuff, etc) then you will see no activity anywhere except rFactor - it is inevitable! :) We are at the beginning, not the end!

"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ShV2f.504$[email hidden]...

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> Never say never. > > Today the consoles arent an option for me either. Someday that may not be > the case though. When a console can run high res with all the accessories > I can use now (wheels, sticks etc) I'd actually much prefer $3-400 for a > console vs $1000-2000 for a high end PC. Today isnt the day though ;) > > Mitch >

Not to mention that you could say goodbye to every mod, track, etc that was ever released for any sim - think about that for a sec!

> Not to mention that you could say goodbye to every mod, track, etc that > was ever released for any sim - think about that for a sec! and the fact that consoles are commodity items and get replaced by newer versions. Unless you have space to store them, this means older games get obsoleted as well.

>> Or we just die like the flightsim community? It isn't dead, it's just that the remaining 2 or 3 players are busy going around the world in real time flying Cessna 172's. (A lot of islands had to be invented for the cross ocean flights). > Once rFactor has tracks that appeal to all and mods that appeal to all > (F1, Champ cars, Daytona Prototypes, Aussie V8 Supercars, Euro GT stuff, > etc) then you will see no activity anywhere except rFactor - it is > inevitable! :) We are at the beginning, not the end! I don't think any one game is ever going to dominate online play. The closest to this we have right now is NR2003 online superspeedway racing, where 300 to 500 players are online during peak times. For the rest of the racing games, I suspect it will remain around 100 players or less.

"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:4LK2f.67061$lq6.3155@fed1read01: > Rally sims - I've never seen or played RBR. I do have Collin McRae > Rally 2005, but only played it a few times. Just can't get motivated > with rally style driving.Collin McRae Rally isn't much of a sim. But RBR is stunning, it probably has the best car physics among all sims. Unlike road racing sims it's much more believable when you go off the pavement and over bumps (intentionally or not). If you haven't driven RBR or rally car in real life you just haven't experienced rally style driving. If you want to try, RBR is likely to be a cheaper option (than real life rallying ;>) > Like many players, I spend most of my gaming time offline as opposed > to online. I think most GPL players probably fit into this category, > hot lapping for a GPL rank as opposed to online racing.I'm not sure, I run GPL almost exclusively online. It was around for such a long time that most people got quite proficient and primarily race in the leagues (official or practice races). There's a quality racing there, so pick up racing is dying out. The funny side of such an established sim is that many drivers are so consistent that races often resemble typical F1 processional races. Drivers qualify in the order of their pace, and 0.1s per lap becomes unsurmountable margin when nobody makes mistakes. This often makes practice races more fun, because faster drivers usually fall to the back and try to make positions on track. Alex.

>"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote Once rFactor has tracks >that appeal to all and mods that appeal to all > (F1, Champ cars, Daytona Prototypes, Aussie V8 Supercars, Euro GT stuff, > etc) then you will see no activity anywhere except rFactor - it is > inevitable! :) We are at the beginning, not the end! Important word : "Once". I see a very big egg vs. chicken problematic here for rFactor. Do tracks/cars/mods bring people to the online environment, or will the people online bring those tracks/cars/mods? Because at the moments, it's quite evident that rFactor is not a big seller at all, the arenas and race servers are not populated at all. Considering there's no boxed release of rFactor, it's all in the word-of-mouth. That thing can easily kill rFactor into the nothingless of the internet, within half a dozen so-so 6-months-of-fun sims that are developped fastly, fragment the community and aren't supported with patches by the developpers (hmm ISI's babies anybody???). Or worse, if the rFactors guys leave the community on it's own to create tracks, fix problems, WRITE A MANUAL (jebus guys was it that hard to make?). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote > I think the sim-racing world would be in awe if something like > Enthusia or GT4 would be released for the PC You mean a no-damage 4-car-multi game with semi-serious physics where the way to go fast is to bounce into the walls and where the only good graphics are in the replay mode? ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cc%2f.4843$[email hidden]...

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> >"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote Once rFactor has tracks > >that appeal to all and mods that appeal to all >> (F1, Champ cars, Daytona Prototypes, Aussie V8 Supercars, Euro GT stuff, >> etc) then you will see no activity anywhere except rFactor - it is >> inevitable! :) We are at the beginning, not the end! > > > Important word : "Once". > > I see a very big egg vs. chicken problematic here for rFactor. Do > tracks/cars/mods bring people to the online environment, or will the > people online bring those tracks/cars/mods? Because at the moments, it's > quite evident that rFactor is not a big seller at all, the arenas and race > servers are not populated at all. > > Considering there's no boxed release of rFactor, it's all in the > word-of-mouth. That thing can easily kill rFactor into the nothingless of > the internet, within half a dozen so-so 6-months-of-fun sims that are > developped fastly, fragment the community and aren't supported with > patches by the developpers (hmm ISI's babies anybody???). Or worse, if > the rFactors guys leave the community on it's own to create tracks, fix > problems, WRITE A MANUAL (jebus guys was it that hard to make?). >

I think you're forgetting GPL - the ultimate in success amongst the sim community (screw commercial success). The moral to the story is simple - if it's good, real good, word of mouth will do the rest. And it already is really good. Not only are the mods and tracks on the horizon (not too mention some in place), but a trip to http://www.rfactor.net/index.php will soon reveale that it's about to get a lot better and has a heap of bug fixes (and this is in a sim that has hardly any bugs at all). This is a very good sign if you ask me. I'll go on the record right now and say that rFactor is easily the best thing since sliced bread and GPL (wondering if sliced bread and GPL are of the same era LOL).

which has a 2 edge sword, because 'developers' would then be likely to make money (if worth the trouble I assume) with newer versions every year. more poeple selling games, I dunno I kinda really hate the way the punk mentality with virus' spyware and crap has gotten up to, so I am hatting the PC, but I could hate a console too having to wait for new games to fix bugs in old ones? <G>. Bah! Jeff Reid enlightened us with: >> Not to mention that you could say goodbye to every mod, track, >> etc that was ever released for any sim - think about that for a sec! > > and the fact that consoles are commodity items and get replaced by > newer versions. Unless you have space to store them, this means older > games get obsoleted as well.

JR, you're in the USA right? Have you thought about wether or how you going to get GTLegends before January-march 06? have you figured that out yet and I say with english as the only version my lazy american speaking and reading can handl? Jeff Reid enlightened us with:

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>> As far as superspeedways not requiring any driving skill, > > Never having raced superspeedways before, I had my first win > on my second online session. I don't think this could happen > with any other racing sim, or with the road courses in NR2003. > It would take a lot longer than just two sessions to run > 1:14's at Watkins Glen, the time that most fast players run at. > >> As far as superspeedways not requiring any driving skill, tell that >> to the 8/10 and 9/10 racers out there. > > The only driving skill I see is during qualification and pitting. > Just need to qualify near the front to be able to avoid wrecks and > win. Most of the 8/10 and 9/10 players work with a group or team, and > this is very difficult to beat as an individual. The team or group > work together in pitting and getting back into a draft after pitting, > which is the key factor for winning a race (and wreck avoidance). > > In order to get a rating of 7 or 8, the main thing is to race in > a large field (30+ players), and finish in the top 7 or so. Getting > to a 6 on an open server isn't that difficult (takes me two nights). > Getting to a 7 or 8 is best done on an FLMS server with a minimum of 6 > rating. FLMS also has a minimum 7 rating server, but it's not > very popular anymore since they added a 6 server also. > > Regarding the inside versus outside line, the standard speedway > tracks favor the inside line. Only a cooperating group or team > can make the outside line work.

> JR, you're in the USA right? Have you thought about wether or how you going to get GTLegends before January-march 06? > have you figured that out yet and I say with english as the only version my lazy american speaking and reading can > handl? I ordered it from Sweeden, http://english.megastore.se/, just got an email confirming they are shipping it (probably via slow boat), so I should get it in a week or so.

> I ordered it from Sweeden, http://english.megastore.se/, just got an email > confirming they are shipping it (probably via slow boat), so I should get > it in a week or so. Oops, make that Sweden. Hmm, if long "e" is for weed and not wed, why is Sweden?

Let me know when you get it as I need to know, will it be in english? thanks Jeff Reid wrote: >> I ordered it from Sweeden, http://english.megastore.se/, just got an >> email confirming they are shipping it (probably via slow boat), so I >> should get it in a week or so. > > Oops, make that Sweden. Hmm, if long "e" is for weed and not wed, > why is Sweden?

PlowBoy wrote:

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> which has a 2 edge sword, because 'developers' would then be likely to make > money (if worth the trouble I assume) with newer versions every year. more > poeple selling games, I dunno I kinda really hate the way the punk mentality > with virus' spyware and crap has gotten up to, so I am hatting the PC, but I > could hate a console too having to wait for new games to fix bugs in old > ones? <G>. Bah! > Jeff Reid enlightened us with: > >>> Not to mention that you could say goodbye to every mod, track, >>>etc that was ever released for any sim - think about that for a sec! >> >>and the fact that consoles are commodity items and get replaced by >>newer versions. Unless you have space to store them, this means older >>games get obsoleted as well. > > >

Just a matter of time before viruses and such find their way into consoles..just mho though.. Mike

"Sting32" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zzj3f.2240$[email hidden]...

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> Let me know when you get it as I need to know, will it be in english? > thanks > > Jeff Reid wrote: >>> I ordered it from Sweeden, http://english.megastore.se/, just got an >>> email confirming they are shipping it (probably via slow boat), so I >>> should get it in a week or so. >> >> Oops, make that Sweden. Hmm, if long "e" is for weed and not wed, >> why is Sweden? > >

Remember, Simbin did not allow a legal conversion of the english version to be available to those that forked out for the German version. I don't know wtf they did that. Just a word of warning. ?Bitorent? was the place to get it last I heard.

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>>>> I ordered it from Sweden, http://english.megastore.se/, just got an >>>> email confirming they are shipping it (probably via slow boat), so I >>>> should get it in a week or so. > Remember, Simbin did not allow a legal conversion of the english version > to be available to those that forked out for the German version. I don't > know wtf they did that. Just a word of warning. ?Bitorent? was the place to > get it last I heard.

When GTR was first released, I found the German to English patch at several web sites. As GTR was upgraded from 1.0 to 1.3, these patches also kept getting updated. If you do a web search for GTR German to English, you will find web sites that now have the 1.4 version. Regarding GTLegends, it's out in Nordic countries, Italy, Spain, ... , so hopefully there's an english option. I'll find out when it arrives.

> I ordered it from Sweden, http://english.megastore.se/ Some at RSC have already recieved their copies, no mention of not being in English. There's also a post that gogamer will start selling to USA tommorrow (October 14).

In article <%SW2f.70493$lq6.24661@fed1read01>, [email hidden] says...

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> > As far as superspeedways not requiring any driving skill, > > Never having raced superspeedways before, I had my first win > on my second online session. I don't think this could happen > with any other racing sim, or with the road courses in NR2003. > It would take a lot longer than just two sessions to run > 1:14's at Watkins Glen, the time that most fast players run at. > > > As far as superspeedways not requiring any driving skill, tell that to > > the 8/10 and 9/10 racers out there. > > The only driving skill I see is during qualification and pitting. > Just need to qualify near the front to be able to avoid wrecks and win. > Most of the 8/10 and 9/10 players work with a group or team, and > this is very difficult to beat as an individual. The team or group > work together in pitting and getting back into a draft after pitting, > which is the key factor for winning a race (and wreck avoidance). > > In order to get a rating of 7 or 8, the main thing is to race in > a large field (30+ players), and finish in the top 7 or so. Getting > to a 6 on an open server isn't that difficult (takes me two nights).

If you can make a 6/7 rating in a couple of nights, then you're not doing anything I would call racing. The 5-10% sprints aren't races, and people with high ratings don't generally impress me, especially on supers. Supers require different skills that short tracks or roadies, but technically, I think supers require less work on the part of the drivers. Qualifying is important, but it's not a "skill" - making a setup is a skill (and I admittedly suck at making setups). The "key factor" to winning a race differs depending on what kind of race you're in. In a race I'm typically in (50%, with 10-18 drivers, cautions, realistic damage, and double-file restarts), at least one green-flag pitstop is required, you gotta be more careful with your tires, you have to nail each pitstop and stay off the wall to avoid having the pitcrew need to repair your car. You also have to maintain your concentration for a lot longer that the sprint races you drive in. It takes more "skill" to run league races that it does to run sprints.

The age of NR2003 doesn't bother me. The lack of large fields does. -Larry "Gil" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Gotta differ with you guys about N2003 - whether you race > superspeedways (as I do) or any other type of track, there are plenty > of regular, consistent race series going on all the time. Just gotta > hook up with the right people - and show them what you can do on the > track. > > As far as superspeedways not requiring any driving skill, tell that to > the 8/10 and 9/10 racers out there. They will slice and dice you at > their leisure. People don't get the higher ratings without putting real > time in finding how to handle the car in the low and high lines. Maybe > it's not a skill you wish to acquire, but it is DEFINATELY a skill. >

WHOOO HOO! post a question, see if they tell you it is english! <G>. Hello go gamer, what did I do with that link... GOOOGLE Jeff Reid enlightened us with: >> I ordered it from Sweden, http://english.megastore.se/ > > Some at RSC have already recieved their copies, no mention > of not being in English. There's also a post that gogamer > will start selling to USA tommorrow (October 14).

PlowBoy wrote:

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> > WHOOO HOO! post a question, see if they tell you it is english! <G>. > > Hello go gamer, what did I do with that link... GOOOGLE > Jeff Reid enlightened us with: > >> I ordered it from Sweden, http://english.megastore.se/ > > > > Some at RSC have already recieved their copies, no mention > > of not being in English. There's also a post that gogamer > > will start selling to USA tommorrow (October 14).

Most games sold in Scandinavia are in English, the individual markets are too small to warrant a language conversion I assume, so there's a good chance it will be the English version, you might get the manual in a foreign language though... :D Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." --Our Lord John Cleese--

Thank you goy! you'll translate it for me, wont ya? Goy Larsen enlightened us with:

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> PlowBoy wrote: >> >> WHOOO HOO! post a question, see if they tell you it is english! >> <G>. >> >> Hello go gamer, what did I do with that link... GOOOGLE >> Jeff Reid enlightened us with: >>>> I ordered it from Sweden, http://english.megastore.se/ >>> >>> Some at RSC have already recieved their copies, no mention >>> of not being in English. There's also a post that gogamer >>> will start selling to USA tommorrow (October 14). > > Most games sold in Scandinavia are in English, the individual markets > are too small to warrant a language conversion I assume, so there's a > good chance it will be the English version, you might get the manual > in a foreign language though... :D > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "When two or more people are gathered together in my name, > they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..." > > --Our Lord John Cleese--

> If you can make a 6/7 rating in a couple of nights, then you're not > doing anything I would call racing. The 5-10% sprints aren't races, and > people with high ratings don't generally impress me, especially on > supers. This was my point. Most of the online Sierra.com players are running super speedway sprints. During peak time I see 300 players during weekdays, and 500 players during weekends, which is a lot more than other racing games, and most of them are running super speedway sprints. I think there are two main reasons for the popularity of these super speedway sprints, virtually no skill required, and it's Nascar (a lot of players are fans).

> Hello go gamer, what did I do with that link... GOOOGLE http://www.gogamer.com/cgi-bin/GoGamer.storefront/SESSIONID/Product/View/001GTL

> The age of NR2003 doesn't bother me. The lack of large fields does. Go online during prime time and there are 300 or more players online. Most of the super speedway sprints will be nearly maxed out at 30 to 40 players.

"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uUA3f.73304

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> This was my point. Most of the online Sierra.com players are running > super speedway sprints. During peak time I see 300 players during > weekdays, and 500 players during weekends, which is a lot more than > other racing games, and most of them are running super speedway > sprints. I think there are two main reasons for the popularity of > these super speedway sprints, virtually no skill required, and it's > Nascar (a lot of players are fans). >

Not to mention Sierra has been making neckcar sims for years and have lots of loyal fans.

Fracking 60 bucks... I guess maybe after Christmas, I can get it... damn vehicle tags, gonna break me again. Jeff Reid enlightened us with: >> Hello go gamer, what did I do with that link... GOOOGLE > > http://www.gogamer.com/cgi-bin/GoGamer.storefront/SESSIONID/Product/View/001GTL

ymenard wrote:

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> rFactor : 40, perhaps 50 people online MAX at peak times. Leagues are > careful not to switch yet. Plenty of "possibilities" for mods but how many > of them will 1) ever see the finish light 2) be of an actual quality and 3) > be worth if it there's nobody racing them? > > GTL : Great cars on washed out neutered tracks. Still the old ISI game > engine filled up with bugs. 3 months of fun then we move on to whatever's > next as developpers don't support it per low sales of it. > > NR2003/GPL : still pumping out the races, but how long with the Sierra > servers be kept alive? > > GTR : Read what I wrote in GTL but start with "Great modern cars". > > LfS : :-| > > > > > So hmm what's next? iRacing? GTR2? Some miraculous other sim? People > actually start RACING rFactor? Or we just die like the flightsim community? > > > My pick : the last one. > > > > >

Took you long enough ;) -- Scott B. Husted� http://www.Husted.cc ICQ# 4395450

"No skill required" depends on who you are racing with. If you have 20 long-time SuperSpeedway Racers that can 'smell' the draft, then I guaran-damn-tee you that if you aren't up to their level, you WILL get your ass kicked. -Larry "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uUA3f.73304$lq6.20943@fed1read01...

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>> If you can make a 6/7 rating in a couple of nights, then you're not >> doing anything I would call racing. The 5-10% sprints aren't races, and >> people with high ratings don't generally impress me, especially on >> supers. > > This was my point. Most of the online Sierra.com players are running > super speedway sprints. During peak time I see 300 players during > weekdays, and 500 players during weekends, which is a lot more than > other racing games, and most of them are running super speedway > sprints. I think there are two main reasons for the popularity of > these super speedway sprints, virtually no skill required, and it's > Nascar (a lot of players are fans). > > > >

I'm with you Larry. To be good requires every bit of skill and yes luck than at any other type of track. The reason guys still run it is because its fun not because its easy. Personally I don't run nr2003 anymore but when I did dega and tona always had the best turnouts even in skilled league races not just pickups. Going into T1 at Toban is really no different and requires the same skill/luck ;) Remember, "luck is where preparation meets opportunity".... Mitch "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TJ95f.5911$vk1.5498@dukeread04...

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> "No skill required" depends on who you are racing with. > > If you have 20 long-time SuperSpeedway Racers that can 'smell' the draft, > then I guaran-damn-tee you that if you aren't up to their level, you WILL > get your ass kicked. > > -Larry > > "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:uUA3f.73304$lq6.20943@fed1read01... >>> If you can make a 6/7 rating in a couple of nights, then you're not >>> doing anything I would call racing. The 5-10% sprints aren't races, and >>> people with high ratings don't generally impress me, especially on >>> supers. >> >> This was my point. Most of the online Sierra.com players are running >> super speedway sprints. During peak time I see 300 players during >> weekdays, and 500 players during weekends, which is a lot more than >> other racing games, and most of them are running super speedway >> sprints. I think there are two main reasons for the popularity of >> these super speedway sprints, virtually no skill required, and it's >> Nascar (a lot of players are fans). >> >> >> >> > >

> "No skill required" depends on who you are racing with. A random sample of the 300 to 500 players running super speeday sprints on any given night. > If you have 20 long-time SuperSpeedway Racers that can 'smell' the draft, The odds are against getting more than 5 of them in one race, and sometimes some idiot takes them all out.

That's why I like the semi-private servers. -Larry "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lHg5f.77874$lq6.32977@fed1read01...

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>> "No skill required" depends on who you are racing with. > > A random sample of the 300 to 500 players running super speeday > sprints on any given night. > >> If you have 20 long-time SuperSpeedway Racers that can 'smell' the draft, > > The odds are against getting more than 5 of them in one race, and > sometimes some idiot takes them all out. > >