Most realistic physics?

Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? i.e. not just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as possible?

vvx wrote: > Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? i.e. not > just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as possible? Toca 3.

Puhahaha! Toca is and always will be an Arcade game. [email hidden] wrote:

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> vvx wrote: > >> Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? i.e. not >> just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as possible? > > Toca 3. >

"Chang Liu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:e1uvcv$985$[email hidden]...

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> Puhahaha! Toca is and always will be an Arcade game. > > [email hidden] wrote: >> vvx wrote: >> >>> Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? i.e. >>> not >>> just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as possible? >> >> Toca 3.

TOCA 3 is hit and miss. Some of the models are great(touring cars, open wheelers) but some are downright laughable(all the off road shit apart from the Lancia Stratos and Evolution). All in all, a good game but I would still put it on the arcade side rather than the sim side of the fence.

Coming from "Mr. NSR", that endorsement doesn't carry much weight, imo.

Coming from "Mr. NSR", that endor***t doesn't carry much weight, imo.

Nascar Racing 2003. If you don't have a copy, you're in for sticker-shock though.... -Larry "vvx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%YA0g.66107$[email hidden]... > Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? i.e. > not just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as > possible? >

[email hidden] wrote:

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> vvx wrote: > >> Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? i.e. not >> just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as possible? > > Toca 3. >

For me, the credibility of the Toca series went out the window with Toca 2. I was driving an Indy car at Road America, and midway through the race I was overtaken on the *outside* of turns 1 and 2 by computer-controlled cars *with no front wings*! They'd probably had an accident in the first-corner scramble, but it obviously made no difference whatsoever to the cars' handling.

re: Nascar Racing 2003 I saw a bunch of them at Fry's the other day for $9.99. They're repackaged as bargain games. I was going to pick up all of them and sell them on ebay, but I figured everyone would figure out they're just $10.

> Nascar Racing 2003. Hehe...I think it's safe to say sim racing has moved on since then. Check out... GT Legends Richard Burns Rally rFactor Netkar Pro

Not really... -Larry "Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>> Nascar Racing 2003. > > Hehe...I think it's safe to say sim racing has moved on since then. > > Check out... > > GT Legends > Richard Burns Rally > rFactor > Netkar Pro >

Maybe you need to tell the roof-riding aids users that Larry, LOL. Seriously though you obviously prefer Nascar (ovals only to boot) and the only realistic option for Nascar simracing is still NR2003. On that point we agree. Evolution/rFactor looks promising but has a ways to go. GTL while an option still feels nearly exactly like GTR. LFS never really felt very realistic and I havent tried the Netkar demo. rFactor is king! Mitch "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:58U0g.23077$s%6.9489@dukeread02... > Not really... > > -Larry

Mitch wrote: > LFS never really felt > very realistic and I havent tried the Netkar demo. You really should try the Netkar Pro demo. The next GPL IMHO, really. GTL and rFactor are good racing games, the AI in GTL is particularly good, but NKPro is the real deal for just wanting to be on track even on your own trying out different settings (I can't be arsed doing that with rFactor or GTL - I need other cars to race with). If rFactor seemed rough around the edges on release then NKPro initially has had an even rougher start in life, but you know what they say about diamonds in the rough... Cheers Tony

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> vvx wrote: > >> Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? i.e. >> not >> just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as possible? > > Toca 3. >

HAHAHA

Burns Rally! Yay! Steve Simpson wrote:

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>> Nascar Racing 2003. > > Hehe...I think it's safe to say sim racing has moved on since then. > > Check out... > > GT Legends > Richard Burns Rally > rFactor > Netkar Pro > >

Try Forza for Xbox. Best one for console thus far. Although people just drift in it now-a-days. Marni wrote:

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> > <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> vvx wrote: >> >>> Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? >>> i.e. not >>> just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as possible? >> >> Toca 3. >> > > HAHAHA

vvx wrote: > Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? i.e. > not just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as > possible? www.liveforspeed.net

>> Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? i.e. >> not just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as >> possible? > > www.liveforspeed.net It's not there yet, but with the next release, if the game lives up to the hype at the web site, it should be good.

LFS is a drifting game. LOL Daniel Flinkmann wrote:

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> vvx wrote: > >> Which modern driving sims have the most realistic physics overall? i.e. >> not just designed for fun, but sticks to the real world as much as >> possible? > > www.liveforspeed.net > >

The top ones are (my personal order): GTL Richard Burns Rally GTR rFactor Nascar Racing 2003

>> www.liveforspeed.net > > It's not there yet, but with the next release, if the game lives up to > the hype at the web site, it should be good. Well I'd have to say the new Patch 0.5 T for S2 did live up to the hype. The tire phsyics is greatly improved. I'm currently playing Tombraider Legends, so I only ran a few laps in the new F1 and the LX6 (like a Caterham), and the game is greatly improved. I just used the default RACE setups, but it's definately in the ball park now with the other popular sims now.

Bob wrote:

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> The top ones are (my personal order): > > GTL > Richard Burns Rally > GTR > rFactor > Nascar Racing 2003

GTL - toss this out it comes with Starfu#k Richard Burns Rally - good rally sim GTR - toss this out it comes with Starfu#k rFactor - only good for the mods Nascar Racing 2003 - dead Congrats you missed the sim with the best physics to date - Live for Speed.

The whole NR2003 is dead thing is really humerous. It's as popular as ever. Leftover copies are going for $150-$300 on eBay. Sierra is still very active. There are large numbers of leagues running it. Bits and Bytes don't wear out. It has not been superceeded by ANY Nascar Sim, and probably never will be. Yet it's dead. I can only wish I live as strongly in my old age. -Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Bob wrote: >> The top ones are (my personal order): >> >> GTL >> Richard Burns Rally >> GTR >> rFactor >> Nascar Racing 2003 > > GTL - toss this out it comes with Starfu#k > Richard Burns Rally - good rally sim > GTR - toss this out it comes with Starfu#k > rFactor - only good for the mods > Nascar Racing 2003 - dead > > Congrats you missed the sim with the best physics to date - Live for > Speed. >

Its great for drifting. :) Jeff Reid wrote:

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>>> www.liveforspeed.net >> It's not there yet, but with the next release, if the game lives up to >> the hype at the web site, it should be good. > > Well I'd have to say the new Patch 0.5 T for S2 did live up to the hype. > The tire phsyics is greatly improved. I'm currently playing Tombraider > Legends, so I only ran a few laps in the new F1 and the LX6 (like a > Caterham), and the game is greatly improved. I just used the default > RACE setups, but it's definately in the ball park now with the other > popular sims now. > >

I use Live for Speed for pure drifting because there is no other way to successfully take corners without sliding them. [email hidden] wrote:

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> Bob wrote: >> The top ones are (my personal order): >> >> GTL >> Richard Burns Rally >> GTR >> rFactor >> Nascar Racing 2003 > > GTL - toss this out it comes with Starfu#k > Richard Burns Rally - good rally sim > GTR - toss this out it comes with Starfu#k > rFactor - only good for the mods > Nascar Racing 2003 - dead > > Congrats you missed the sim with the best physics to date - Live for > Speed. >

>"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote > The whole NR2003 is dead thing is really humerous. > It's as popular as ever. There's more people that race NR2003 online than all the other sims together. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I don't get why people like to go in the oval over and over again... ymenard wrote:

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>> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote >> The whole NR2003 is dead thing is really humerous. >> It's as popular as ever. > > > There's more people that race NR2003 online than all the other sims > together. > > > > > > >

> I don't get why people like to go in the oval over and over again... Because on fixed setup open servers, with all assists on, it doesn't take a lot of skill, the drafting makes for really close racing, the visuals and the sounds are really nice, and a lot of these players are real Nascar fans. You do need a lot of time as just one race will take about 1/2 hour.

> There's more people that race NR2003 online than all the other sims together. When I was playing, you might see 200 to 300 players online on a weeknight (USA time) and up to 500 players on a weekend night. It's suprising, because with all the racing games out there now, NR2003 online is still fairly active. NR2003 doesn't seem to have as many hot lappers as the other games though. Since racing games have been out since 1999, most of the newness and the thrill of online racing is gone for many players, and there just doesn't seem to be the interest that there used to be. The consoles are also affecting which games younger players run.

>I don't get why people like to go in the oval over and over again... It's one of the great mysteries of our time. I've been watching it on a cable channel for the last 12 months desperately trying to gain an appreciation of it but I've recently come to the conclusion that you need to be raised from a small child watching Nascar oblivious to all other motorsport to enjoy it.

Because every corner of every lap is actually very different, and it's up to the driver to make the most out of each situation. -Larry "Chang Liu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:e2mldo$g0c$[email hidden]...

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>I don't get why people like to go in the oval over and over again... > > ymenard wrote: >>> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote >>> The whole NR2003 is dead thing is really humerous. >>> It's as popular as ever. >> >> >> There's more people that race NR2003 online than all the other sims >> together. >> >> >> >> >> >>

>"Chang Liu" <[email hidden]> wrote >I don't get why people like to go in the oval over and over again... You've never done a 200 lapper at Indianapolis with 20 other people of your caliber, thinking about all those things that are specific to oval-track situations. Wrecks, tyres, fuel, your line vs. others, lapped-traffic, fatigue, opponent psychology, etc... -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote > Because on fixed setup open servers, with all assists on, it doesn't > take a lot of skill, the drafting makes for really close racing, Most of the leagues don't run that way, they do run fixed setups, but assits are for the most off (except stuff like auto-clutch obviously). It surely levels the field, but not "that" much where everybody is half a second close. Anyway the thing with oval racing is... even if you are 0.5 seconds off the leader's laptime, it means that after 20 laps you will be 10 seconds away from him, that's pretty much!!!! Anyway skilled drivers will always find their way up front, it's always a challenge for the experienced driver to start at the back of the field in a Talladega pickup race and try to find your way up front. Not to be show-off myself, but anybody with Hawaii/NROS experience know how to deal with that type of racing, it's very entertaining and if you crash, oh well what the heck! :-D -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote > When I was playing, you might see 200 to 300 players online on a > weeknight (USA time) and up to 500 players on a weekend night. Exactly, that's almost as much as LFS, GTL, rF and GTR together. For a sim that's 3 years old, > It's suprising, because with all the racing games out there now, > NR2003 online is still fairly active. NR2003 doesn't seem to have > as many hot lappers as the other games though. Well there will always be the driver whom even with all those laps and years, is just not skilled enough. In a sim like GPL, the difficulty of the sim would have weared him out, and he would anyway have been 5 seconds off the pace at Kyalami, so the "normal skilled drivers" (without any kind of help like yellow flags) wouldn't have to deal with him except each couple of dozen laps as they lap him. But with Nascar-type oval racing it's something you always have to consider. > The consoles are also affecting which games younger players run. It's the skill pyramid, people down there are more in number than at the top. Not being elitist here (I really don't consider myself near the top since people have switched out of Nascar Racing 3) but it's a reality of every sim, with the angle of the pyramid being a little different ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

:( Sounds like a waste of time. I bet those guys can't handle 200 time trials on any rally course :P ymenard wrote:

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>> "Chang Liu" <[email hidden]> wrote >> I don't get why people like to go in the oval over and over again... > > > You've never done a 200 lapper at Indianapolis with 20 other people of your > caliber, thinking about all those things that are specific to oval-track > situations. Wrecks, tyres, fuel, your line vs. others, lapped-traffic, > fatigue, opponent psychology, etc... > > > > > > >

>> Because on fixed setup open servers, with all assists on, it doesn't >> take a lot of skill, the drafting makes for really close racing, > Most of the leagues don't run that way I wasn't referring to league play, which I assume isn't as popular as the open server play. > Anyway the thing with oval racing is... even if you are 0.5 seconds Except on the popular restrictor plate ovals, drafting and rules eliminates any advantage in skill, since 2 cars are faster than 1, and 3 are faster than 2, and the rules for almost all open servers force the player in front to take a high line and allow other cars to pass by inside. > Anyway skilled drivers will always find their way up front Depends on the server. On an open 0-10 server, there's a good chance of getting caught up in a wreck starting at the back of a pack. On a 6-10 server, there are enough other skilled drivers that there is little chance of working to the front. The main exception is a team of 3 or more drivers that pit and draft together.

I think Nascar drivers should try Rally. :) Look out! A... RIGHT HANDER! :D Jeff Reid wrote:

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>>> Because on fixed setup open servers, with all assists on, it doesn't >>> take a lot of skill, the drafting makes for really close racing, > >> Most of the leagues don't run that way > > I wasn't referring to league play, which I assume isn't as popular > as the open server play. > >> Anyway the thing with oval racing is... even if you are 0.5 seconds > > Except on the popular restrictor plate ovals, drafting and rules eliminates > any advantage in skill, since 2 cars are faster than 1, and 3 are > faster than 2, and the rules for almost all open servers force the player > in front to take a high line and allow other cars to pass by inside. > >> Anyway skilled drivers will always find their way up front > > Depends on the server. On an open 0-10 server, there's a good chance > of getting caught up in a wreck starting at the back of a pack. > On a 6-10 server, there are enough other skilled drivers that there > is little chance of working to the front. The main exception is > a team of 3 or more drivers that pit and draft together. > > >

If you don't think restrictor plate racing takes skill, you are very wrong. It's a different kind of skill, but skill nonetheless. Your assessment of rules for "Most Open Servers" is completely wrong too. Most servers that have moderators do have a rule stating no low-line blocking until the last lap or two. There's good reason for this. As for your last paragraph, working your way through the field without getting wrecked out IS part of the necessary skills, just like it is for the real drivers. -Larry "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zzZ3g.37944$iU2.25909@fed1read01...

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>>> Because on fixed setup open servers, with all assists on, it doesn't > Except on the popular restrictor plate ovals, drafting and rules > eliminates > any advantage in skill, since 2 cars are faster than 1, and 3 are > faster than 2, and the rules for almost all open servers force the player > in front to take a high line and allow other cars to pass by inside. > >> Anyway skilled drivers will always find their way up front > > Depends on the server. On an open 0-10 server, there's a good chance > of getting caught up in a wreck starting at the back of a pack. > On a 6-10 server, there are enough other skilled drivers that there > is little chance of working to the front. The main exception is > a team of 3 or more drivers that pit and draft together. > > >

> If you don't think restrictor plate racing takes skill, you are very > wrong. It's a different kind of skill, but skill nonetheless. I can think of no other form of online racing where a player, me, having never raced cup or ovals before, took less than 10 races to win his first online race (7th or 8th race). This would never happen on a road course, I wouldn't be pulling 1:14's at Watkins Glen with only 10 races of experience. > Your assessment of rules for "Most Open Servers" is completely wrong too. Most servers that have moderators do have a > rule stating no low-line blocking until the last lap or two. There's good reason for this. I understand that the tracks favor the low line. I was just pointing out that the rules often mean that higher skilled player has to make room for a pack of lower skilled racers, taking the higher skilled racer out of contention for a win if it's near the end of a race. Also the no low lining rule is basically uneeeded for most of a race, especially before pitting. All it does is lead to more incidents. Worse yet is what I consider a mis-interpretation of the rule. If your car is at the back of the lead pack, approaching a turn, you should have the right to hold the line into the turn behind the car in front of you, and not required to give way to the lead car of the trailing pack that stuffs his front bumper inside your rear bumper going into a turn, especially if the other car drops below the yellow line to get inside of you. > As for your last paragraph, working your way through the field without getting wrecked out IS part of the necessary > skills, just like it is for the real drivers. And virtually impossible on most 0-10 servers were not only the entire track, but also a good part of the infield is littered with cars, plus the risk of collecting an incident for a wreck that started 20 cars ahead of you.

Well, I can tell you this. If you were racing with us in Rascar with the level of drivers we had, you would probably not have won in 10 races unless it was me pushing your butt to the front because that's where I wanted to be :) It's all relative to the level of drivers you are with. There are NR2003 drivers that can do things you would not think possible. And they don't need to cheat to do it. I've had the privilage of racing with, and getting my ass kicked, by some of the finest drivers out there over the last year. -Larry "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9284g.37952$iU2.9684@fed1read01...

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>> If you don't think restrictor plate racing takes skill, you are very >> wrong. It's a different kind of skill, but skill nonetheless. > > I can think of no other form of online racing where a player, me, > having never raced cup or ovals before, took less than 10 races > to win his first online race (7th or 8th race). This would never > happen on a road course, I wouldn't be pulling 1:14's at Watkins > Glen with only 10 races of experience. > >> Your assessment of rules for "Most Open Servers" is completely wrong too. >> Most servers that have moderators do have a rule stating no low-line >> blocking until the last lap or two. There's good reason for this. > > I understand that the tracks favor the low line. I was just pointing > out that the rules often mean that higher skilled player has to make > room for a pack of lower skilled racers, taking the higher skilled > racer out of contention for a win if it's near the end of a race. > > Also the no low lining rule is basically uneeeded for most of a race, > especially before pitting. All it does is lead to more incidents. > > Worse yet is what I consider a mis-interpretation of the rule. If > your car is at the back of the lead pack, approaching a turn, you > should have the right to hold the line into the turn behind the > car in front of you, and not required to give way to the lead car > of the trailing pack that stuffs his front bumper inside your > rear bumper going into a turn, especially if the other car drops > below the yellow line to get inside of you. > >> As for your last paragraph, working your way through the field without >> getting wrecked out IS part of the necessary skills, just like it is for >> the real drivers. > > And virtually impossible on most 0-10 servers were not only the entire > track, > but also a good part of the infield is littered with cars, plus the risk > of collecting an incident for a wreck that started 20 cars ahead of you. > > >

> Well, I can tell you this. If you were racing with us in Rascar with the level of drivers we had, you would probably > not have won in 10 races unless it was me pushing your butt to the front because that's where I wanted to be :) True, but I was referring to the open servers, and driving with all assists on, which makes running on an oval pretty easy, except you have to brake a tad earlier to pit to stop the steering assist. The highest rated server I won races on was the FLMS 7-10 server. During my short stint with NR2003 online, the most consistent top finishers were part of a team. This is because pitting and getting back into a draft quickly are the key aspects to finishing well. I could generally qualify in the top 10, far enough front to avoid the early crash fest that almost always happens. > It's all relative to the level of drivers you are with. There are NR2003 drivers that can do things you would not > think possible. And they don't need to cheat to do it. True, but even a player .3 seconds quicker in qualifying than me doesn't guarantee that I won't end up exiting the pits right into a draft with another good driver and end up winning if things work out right. The other situation is crashing. With 2 laps to go, I was in 5th place at the back of a pack of some very good team drivers (ss ratings of 8 and 9), and due to lag or just getting too close, the #1 and #2 drivers collided taking, out all the cars in front of me, creating a nice clean corridor right down the middle, allowing me a win. This is part of the draw of restrictor plate racing in my opinion. The drafting forces the cars to be close and minimizes the differences in driver skills. Having all the assists on reduces required skills even more. I don't mind the assists, especially since it reduces the likelyhood of another driver losing control and taking my car out of a race. On the other extreme, like Watkins Glen, even in a 9 lap race, the cars are spread out fairly quickly based on driver skills. Regardless of assists, driver skill plays more of a role on the road courses. I consider a RC rating of 4 higher than an SS rating of 7. The intermediate races, like Lowes are a combination of skill, setup, and knowing how hard to push so you don't wear out your tires too soon. > I've had the privilage of racing with, and getting my ass kicked, by some > of the finest drivers out there over the last year. True, but as mentioned, it's not that diffcult to follow the team racers and sometimes worm your way into the middle of the lead pack because of the no low lining rule. Just follow the pack until there's 2 laps to go and then make your move. Since the leaders will generally stay low on the last lap to prevent an outsider from getting to the front, the team members behind you get stuck as well. > low lining on the BR tracks? Getting a bit off topic here, but just curious. On the tracks fixed so that there is no advantage for staying low, is the lowlining rule eliminated?

See Inline: -Larry "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rcb4g.37953$iU2.33848@fed1read01...

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>> Well, I can tell you this. If you were racing with us in Rascar with the >> level of drivers we had, you would probably not have won in 10 races >> unless it was me pushing your butt to the front because that's where I >> wanted to be :) > > True, but I was referring to the open servers, and driving with all > assists > on, which makes running on an oval pretty easy, except you have to brake a > tad earlier to pit to stop the steering assist. The highest rated server I > won races on was the FLMS 7-10 server.

Don't use assists. Most of the races I've run in the last year didn't allow them. Bear in mind, Assists might help you for a short run, but for longer races they will absolutely hurt you. Steering Assistance particularly, particularly if you are forced to drive off of NR2003's virtual 'perfect' line. That's all SA does. It 'guides' the car to the NR2003 virtual perfect line. If you are using it at a SS, for example, and you are constantly forced to run high, your tires will get ate up very quickly because the car is being forced off the 'virtual perfect line' while SA is trying to put you there. I used to run 1% SA due to wheel twitchy wheel issues. I don't even do that any more. It does help with that though and doesn't really assist with the car.

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> > During my short stint with NR2003 online, the most consistent top > finishers > were part of a team. This is because pitting and getting back into a draft > quickly are the key aspects to finishing well. I could generally qualify > in the top 10, far enough front to avoid the early crash fest that almost > always happens.

You mean like Jr, Waltrip and Tony do? That's how you win races at SS tracks. It REQUIRES a partnership.

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> >> It's all relative to the level of drivers you are with. There are NR2003 >> drivers that can do things you would not think possible. And they don't >> need to cheat to do it. > > True, but even a player .3 seconds quicker in qualifying than me doesn't > guarantee that I won't end up exiting the pits right into a draft with > another > good driver and end up winning if things work out right. The other > situation > is crashing. With 2 laps to go, I was in 5th place at the back of a pack > of some very good team drivers (ss ratings of 8 and 9), and due to lag or > just getting too close, the #1 and #2 drivers collided taking, out all the > cars in front of me, creating a nice clean corridor right down the middle, > allowing me a win.

No argument there. That's racing life/luck. Happens in Sim and Real racing.

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> > This is part of the draw of restrictor plate racing in my opinion. The > drafting forces the cars to be close and minimizes the differences in > driver > skills. Having all the assists on reduces required skills even more. > I don't mind the assists, especially since it reduces the likelyhood of > another driver losing control and taking my car out of a race.

Assists, particularly with FIXED races, hurt you more than they help. The problem with assist is when they are allowed with OPEN Setup races. That's when the bit-wranglers can tweak the setups to work in conjunction with the aids to create unrealistic driving profiles. This is the main reason I only race open setups, where the field is level. Aids are not always a positive with fixed setups. > > On the other extreme, like Watkins Glen, even in a 9 lap race, the cars > are spread out fairly quickly based on driver skills. Regardless of > assists, > driver skill plays more of a role on the road courses. I consider a RC > rating of 4 higher than an SS rating of 7. No argument. > > The intermediate races, like Lowes are a combination of skill, setup, and > knowing how hard to push so you don't wear out your tires too soon. Again, no argument.

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> >> I've had the privilage of racing with, and getting my ass kicked, by some >> of the finest drivers out there over the last year. > > True, but as mentioned, it's not that diffcult to follow the team racers > and > sometimes worm your way into the middle of the lead pack because of the > no low lining rule. Just follow the pack until there's 2 laps to go and > then make your move. Since the leaders will generally stay low on the > last lap to prevent an outsider from getting to the front, the team > members > behind you get stuck as well.

You CAN pass on the outside in these circumstances if you have a partner. I won 2 of the 3 RASCAR series SS races in the 2004 season like this. > >> low lining on the BR tracks? > > Getting a bit off topic here, but just curious. On the tracks fixed so > that > there is no advantage for staying low, is the lowlining rule eliminated? I've never seen it eliminated. Frankly, I find the BR tracks to be damn funky. Also, remember that in most cases the low-line rule is not to prevent people from winning that way. It's to prevent people from wrecking that way. If you get some clown running the low line as a SS from lap one, I guaran-damn-tee you he won't make it to the end. Utter frustration will eventually win over and someone behind him will bump the hell out of him until he's out of the way. I'm known as a clean driver, and even _I_ have had my patience worn thin by following a low-line driver. A low-line rule helps prevent the inevitable intervention of human impatience and frutstration :)

> A low-line rule helps prevent the inevitable intervention of human impatience and frutstration :) True, but if it's before the pit stop what does it matter if someone is low lining?

RATS! Correction..... Assists, particularly with FIXED races, hurt you more than they help. The problem with assist is when they are allowed with OPEN Setup races. That's when the bit-wranglers can tweak the setups to work in conjunction with the aids to create unrealistic driving profiles. This is the main reason I only race ***** FIXED *****setups, where the field is level. Aids are not always a positive with fixed setups.

Re-read the line you quoted :) -Larry "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zSr4g.38151$iU2.2346@fed1read01...

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>> A low-line rule helps prevent the inevitable intervention of human >> impatience and frutstration :) > > True, but if it's before the pit stop what does it matter if someone > is low lining? > >

>>> A low-line rule helps prevent the inevitable intervention of human impatience and frutstration :) >> True, but if it's before the pit stop what does it matter if someone >> is low lining? > Re-read the line you quoted :) Ok, maybe it's just me that realizes it wouldn't matter in terms of who finishes well? I do remember one open server that allowed low lining, and although it was boring to see just one line of cars running until players started pitting, the net result was fewer incidents.

I've never been in a low-line-allowed race that didn't end up in misery for the low-liner eventually. -Larry "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Xqs4g.38156$iU2.16092@fed1read01...

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>>>> A low-line rule helps prevent the inevitable intervention of human >>>> impatience and frutstration :) > >>> True, but if it's before the pit stop what does it matter if someone >>> is low lining? > >> Re-read the line you quoted :) > > Ok, maybe it's just me that realizes it wouldn't matter in terms of > who finishes well? I do remember one open server that allowed low > lining, and although it was boring to see just one line of cars > running until players started pitting, the net result was fewer > incidents. >

> I've never been in a low-line-allowed race that didn't end up in misery for the low-liner eventually. Well the server in question only lastest about a week, but while it was there, it was #2 or #3 in popularity. Maybe since it was announced that low-lining was allowed, the players just accepted it or went to other servers, but as I mentioned, far fewer incidents. Mostly a single line of cars.

> I've never been in a low-line-allowed race that didn't end up in misery for the low-liner eventually. I forgot to mention that the lead car before going into the pits was rarely the winner of the race.

Sounds like a blast (NOT). -Larry "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Cdt4g.38159$iU2.4142@fed1read01...

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> Well the server in question only lastest about a week, but while it was > there, it was #2 or #3 in popularity. Maybe since it was announced that > low-lining was allowed, the players just accepted it or went to other > servers, but as I mentioned, far fewer incidents. Mostly a single > line of cars. > >