rec.autos.simulators

by **Drew** » Tue, 25 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Hello all,
I'm considering buying a FF wheel and I have a few questions to
the *** out there. I play GPL on a wheel I built myself with a
stick shifter and CH pedals. To those who have played awhile, does FF
in GPL help (make you faster)? I have heard great things about the
Logitech, but I don't think I will be happy with paddle shifters. Can
anyone comment on the ACT Labs wheel? Is the feedback sensitive
enought to be helpful. I'm interested in sensory information more than
a shaking wheel. GPL is fun with my wheel, but I'm on the flat part of
the learning curve. Trying to go faster is like threading a
needle-it's getting tedious. Does FF make a difference?
Thanks,
Drew

P.S. It seems like it would be awfully simple for Papy to write a
routine to enable the RS shifter. Who thinks it's likely to happen?

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.racesimcentral.net/ The Internet's Discussion Network *
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by LL » Tue, 25 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I own an ACT-LABS RS with shifter.

I can't tell you it's faster but it's definitely more fun and enjoyable to play with.

I'm like you expecting the shifter patch for GPL, so far I've used the shifter with RC 2000 and it's definitely SLOWER as with the paddle shifters BUT much more fun, also the point is that in rallye you shift every 10 seconds as opposed to GPL where it is "calmer".

by **Scott B. Huste** » Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Drew,

I give my opinion in my review of the ACT LABS Force RS and RS Shifter at
PowerSims.com

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

--
Scott B. Husted
"PA-Scott"
COO
MMMGI
ICQ# 4395450

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Tinke** » Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I have just had a loan of a RS Force to try out and found it disappointing,
particularly in GPL. My own findings are largely the same as the review in
Eagle Womans Force Feedback page.
http://www.racesimcentral.net/#actlabs
The comments on subtlety being the key in driving GPL and the lack of the RS
Force's ability to deliver I found a real bother.
Hope to find another Force wheel to try as I've just saved myself the price
of a RS Force wheel.
Only main plus for the RS Force over my own plain RS wheel was the split
accel & brake axis.

Tinker

by **Pat Dotso** » Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I think Alison may have something else wrong with
here Force RS wheel. The belt drive seems to be
too tight, which creates a lot of extra friction
and deadens the response.

My Force RS is a joy. The forces are strong and
dynamic. The FF setting you use in the core.ini
file will make or brake you experience. What
settings were you using?

Mine are approximately :

damping = 40
max force = 180
latency = 0.0

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> I have just had a loan of a RS Force to try out and found it disappointing,
> particularly in GPL. My own findings are largely the same as the review in
> Eagle Womans Force Feedback page.
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/#actlabs
> The comments on subtlety being the key in driving GPL and the lack of the RS
> Force's ability to deliver I found a real bother.
> Hope to find another Force wheel to try as I've just saved myself the price
> of a RS Force wheel.
> Only main plus for the RS Force over my own plain RS wheel was the split
> accel & brake axis.

> Tinker

> > Hello all,
> > I'm considering buying a FF wheel and I have a few questions to
> > the *** out there. I play GPL on a wheel I built myself with a
> > stick shifter and CH pedals. To those who have played awhile, does FF
> > in GPL help (make you faster)? I have heard great things about the
> > Logitech, but I don't think I will be happy with paddle shifters. Can
> > anyone comment on the ACT Labs wheel? Is the feedback sensitive
> > enought to be helpful. I'm interested in sensory information more than
> > a shaking wheel. GPL is fun with my wheel, but I'm on the flat part of
> > the learning curve. Trying to go faster is like threading a
> > needle-it's getting tedious. Does FF make a difference?
> > Thanks,
> > Drew

> > P.S. It seems like it would be awfully simple for Papy to write a
> > routine to enable the RS shifter. Who thinks it's likely to happen?

> > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.racesimcentral.net/ The Internet's Discussion Network
> *
> > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

by **Roger Andersso** » Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Hi Drew!

Though I only have experinece from two wheels, the Actlabs and the Logitech, I
thought I share my opinions anyway. I bought my wheel (the actlab) this summer
and the same goes for GPL. Since there was no FF for GPL then I used my wheel
with the forces simulating springs as a non-FF wheel. When the Ff patch was
released I naturally enabled it and have never once concidered changing back.
I'm not sure whether the FF has made me faster but it is so much more rewarding
to drive (and easier as well I think). As for Logi vs Actlabs I have a couple of
friends owning the Logi and it's better, not by much but still better. Although
I think the difference is more noticable in other games such as Colin McRae
Rally, TOCA2 and RC 2000. In favour of the aclabs is that it is heavy duty
rather then the plastic sence the Logi gives. Since you already have good pedals
I'll not go in to that. You are also worried about the paddle shifters and those
are easier to like on the Logi. But I think it is only a matter of time to
adjust, I am not concerned at all with my shifters, besides you can always get
the RS shifter.
Wether you choose the Logi or the Act you should tune your FF-settings. These
are mine:
Device driver:

General Force gain: 90 %
Damper Force: 20 %
Spring Force: 100 %

Game specific:
Fully linear stearing
core.ini:

[ Joy ]
allow_force_feedback = 1
force_feedback_damping = 5.000000
force_feedback_latency = 0.000005
max_steering_torque = 150.000000

Cheers, /Roger

> Hello all,
> I'm considering buying a FF wheel and I have a few questions to
> the *** out there. I play GPL on a wheel I built myself with a
> stick shifter and CH pedals. To those who have played awhile, does FF
> in GPL help (make you faster)? I have heard great things about the
> Logitech, but I don't think I will be happy with paddle shifters. Can
> anyone comment on the ACT Labs wheel? Is the feedback sensitive
> enought to be helpful. I'm interested in sensory information more than
> a shaking wheel. GPL is fun with my wheel, but I'm on the flat part of
> the learning curve. Trying to go faster is like threading a
> needle-it's getting tedious. Does FF make a difference?
> Thanks,
> Drew

> P.S. It seems like it would be awfully simple for Papy to write a
> routine to enable the RS shifter. Who thinks it's likely to happen?

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.racesimcentral.net/ The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

by **Sprinte** » Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I have owned a Force RS for some time now, and initially found my lap
times in GPL to worsen slightly. However, the "immersion factor" was
much higher, especially after I found the "sweet spot" in the settings
for my particular system and driving habits. After months of using it,
my lap times in GPL are all improved, and the FF adds a new dimension
to driving. GPL models the forces quite well, and with the Force RS
you can really "feel" the connection between the track and each wheel.

The paddle shifters take some getting used to, but are tremendously
fast and responsive after you get used to them. I just purchased the
ACT Labs shifter, but am still trying to get used to it.

In setting up the ACT Labs wheel, in the Windows control panel set the
spring forces to 15% or lower, and set the strength of effects and
damping to 100%. Definitely, use the 3-axis settings for
controllability. In GPL, try various published settings until you find
the one that gives you the best feedback.

According to several sources, ACT Labs is also getting ready to release
an improved pedal set for this rig, too. The stock pedals are good,
but can cause problems with hard use, or if the manufacturing
tolerances were not quite met. I hate to pay for new pedals just to
get some that have better feel than the old ones, but you do get what
you pay for, generally.

I would recommend going with this wheel rig.

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

by **Drew** » Thu, 27 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Thanks for all the feedback. Everyone has been very helpful. I'm
tempted by ACT labs current deal, but I still can't decide. I wonder
if the new thoughts on setting up the wheel ( I read rumblings about
changing damper values on the group) will bring out the suble forces
better. One things is for sure, the pot on my homebuilt crapped out
yesterday. I need to get something. Oh well, thanks for the help.
-Drew

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

by **GTX_SlotCa** » Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Hi Drew,
I'll be getting the Act Labs wheel and shifter next week, and the first
thing I'll try is my new theory on damping and torque settings for GPL. It's
worked wonders on my Ferrari wheel. I'll make my impressions of the new
settings on the Force RS known on this newsgroup immediatly. I won't wait to
post my review to let you know how it works. From the emails I've been
getting, the new settings may be even more of an improvement with the Act
Labs wheel than they are with the Ferrari wheel.

I'm getting convinced that the notchiness talked about with the Ferrari and
especially the Act Labs wheel, because they both use belts, is not really
what is critical. Actually, the Ferrari wheel has a stronger motor than the
Logitech, and the Act Labs' motor is even stronger. The coincedence that
they both use belts may be being confused with notchiness in the motors,
feeling every 'pole' of the motor's armature.The belt notchiness lessens
with use and is more like running a piece of cardboard on the toothed side
of a hacksaw blade as opposed to the smooth side of the blade. To feel the
belt notches, make sure FF is turned way down. If you turn the wheel very
slowly you will feel little, quick notches as it turns. But turn the wheel
more rapidly and the notches almost disappear. The motion is still smooth.
It also feels kind of like a zipper. To measure the motor notches, turn FF
up quite a bit. As you turn the wheel now, you'll feel each pole of the
motor armature as it passed by the motor magnets. These are stronger and
longer duration notches than what the belt creates. If you turn the wheel
slowly enough, you'll notice that you have to turn it harder as it rises to
the top of the notch, and then easier as it falls from the notch. The motion
is not smooth. The good news is that this type of notchiness is exactly what
the new damping and torque values in GPL helps to get rid of.

I know from emails I've received (keep them coming) that people are using
the new settings and enjoying them. I've also noticed that there are less
complaints about lack of subtle feedback or weak feedback since my original
posts.

Slot

by **Pat Dotso** » Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:00:00

> The coincedence that
> they both use belts may be being confused with notchiness in the motors,
> feeling every 'pole' of the motor's armature.

Bullseye. I confirmed this myself with the Force
RS more than six months ago. The belt drive system
is, in fact, extremely smooth, to the point of
being essentially frictionless compared to the
resistance of the motor.

With all the talk about radical new settings
lately, I tried some new things myself. The
exremely high damping settings do not work at
all for me. They cause serious spiking. I
did find some new settings that I just love:

[ Joy ]
allow_force_feedback = 1
force_feedback_damping = 140.000000
force_feedback_latency = 0.0000
max_steering_torque = 140.000000

These may not be ideal, but they are very
good.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

by **XLjunki** » Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Excuse me if this is a little off topic.
This week i bought the Act Labs RS FF and i see a lot of
settings go by in this NG, and they're all based on the .ini files
of these games. But what about the settings of the wheel itself ?
Do you set them all to 100 % and then fiddle with the settings in
the game, or maybe Vice Versa....
I'm kinda puzzled on this and would appreciate a little help.

XLjunkie

> > The coincedence that
> > they both use belts may be being confused with notchiness in the motors,
> > feeling every 'pole' of the motor's armature.

> Bullseye. I confirmed this myself with the Force
> RS more than six months ago. The belt drive system
> is, in fact, extremely smooth, to the point of
> being essentially frictionless compared to the
> resistance of the motor.

> With all the talk about radical new settings
> lately, I tried some new things myself. The
> exremely high damping settings do not work at
> all for me. They cause serious spiking. I
> did find some new settings that I just love:

> [ Joy ]
> allow_force_feedback = 1
> force_feedback_damping = 140.000000
> force_feedback_latency = 0.0000
> max_steering_torque = 140.000000

> These may not be ideal, but they are very
> good.

> --
> Pat Dotson
> IMPACT Motorsports
> http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

by **XLjunki** » Tue, 01 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Excuse me if this is a little off topic.
This week i bought the Act Labs RS FF and i see a lot of
settings go by in this NG, and they're all based on the .ini files
of these games. But what about the settings of the wheel itself ?
Do you set them all to 100 % and then fiddle with the settings in
the game, or maybe Vice Versa....
I'm kinda puzzled on this and would appreciate a little help.

XLjunkie

> > The coincedence that
> > they both use belts may be being confused with notchiness in the motors,
> > feeling every 'pole' of the motor's armature.

> Bullseye. I confirmed this myself with the Force
> RS more than six months ago. The belt drive system
> is, in fact, extremely smooth, to the point of
> being essentially frictionless compared to the
> resistance of the motor.

> With all the talk about radical new settings
> lately, I tried some new things myself. The
> exremely high damping settings do not work at
> all for me. They cause serious spiking. I
> did find some new settings that I just love:

> [ Joy ]
> allow_force_feedback = 1
> force_feedback_damping = 140.000000
> force_feedback_latency = 0.0000
> max_steering_torque = 140.000000

> These may not be ideal, but they are very
> good.

> --
> Pat Dotson
> IMPACT Motorsports
> http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

by **Roger Andersso** » Tue, 01 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Hi!

I am a Force RS owner and I agree, this is something that has to be added to get
the whole picture. Resently I've (again) started to fiddle around with the
core.ini settings, much due to all suggestions here at RAS. After having tried
some of your guys settings I still got back to my old ones. For me this is the
one that I think gives me most information of whats happening when I'm still on
the road. However when I hit something or go offroad my settings are pretty
useless. I think this isn't a big problem though, since I want to stay on the
raod ;-).
So here it goes, and please try em' out and let me know what you think, mayby
you have a better setup? If you think this is to nervus increase
force_feedback_damping a bit.

Device driver:
General Force gain: 80 %
Damper Force: 20 %
Spring Force: 100 %

Game specific:
Fully linear stearing
core.ini:
[ Joy ]
allow_force_feedback = 1
force_feedback_damping = 5.000000
force_feedback_latency = 0.000005
max_steering_torque = 150.000000

/Roger

> Excuse me if this is a little off topic.
> This week i bought the Act Labs RS FF and i see a lot of
> settings go by in this NG, and they're all based on the .ini files
> of these games. But what about the settings of the wheel itself ?
> Do you set them all to 100 % and then fiddle with the settings in
> the game, or maybe Vice Versa....
> I'm kinda puzzled on this and would appreciate a little help.

by **GTX_SlotCa** » Tue, 01 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Generally, the windows setup for GPL is; overall gain, Max.%, spring gain,
0% and damping 0%, and without the use of default spring tension 'always on'
if you have that feature.

Slot

>Excuse me if this is a little off topic.
>This week i bought the Act Labs RS FF and i see a lot of
>settings go by in this NG, and they're all based on the .ini files
>of these games. But what about the settings of the wheel itself ?
>Do you set them all to 100 % and then fiddle with the settings in
>the game, or maybe Vice Versa....
>I'm kinda puzzled on this and would appreciate a little help.

>XLjunkie

>> > The coincedence that
>> > they both use belts may be being confused with notchiness in the
motors,
>> > feeling every 'pole' of the motor's armature.

>> Bullseye. I confirmed this myself with the Force
>> RS more than six months ago. The belt drive system
>> is, in fact, extremely smooth, to the point of
>> being essentially frictionless compared to the
>> resistance of the motor.

>> With all the talk about radical new settings
>> lately, I tried some new things myself. The
>> exremely high damping settings do not work at
>> all for me. They cause serious spiking. I
>> did find some new settings that I just love:

>> [ Joy ]
>> allow_force_feedback = 1
>> force_feedback_damping = 140.000000
>> force_feedback_latency = 0.0000
>> max_steering_torque = 140.000000

>> These may not be ideal, but they are very
>> good.

>> --
>> Pat Dotson
>> IMPACT Motorsports
>> http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

by **XLjunki** » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Thank you both, goes to show there's a lot of difference in the
Windows settings and it might not be a bad idea for people
to mention those settings as well, along with the .ini settings.

Gonna try both your settings (just to get a good view on the
differences) as soon as i get the chance...
Got so much work to do and when i start racing and fiddelin' with
set-up's, i just can't seem to stop ! ;-)

XLjunkie

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----

Nieuwsgroepen: rec.autos.simulators
Verzonden: maandag 31 januari 2000 14:08
Onderwerp: Re: ACT Labs RS FF questions

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