rec.autos.simulators

by **Txl** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

If I knew what you ment I could have answered...

by **MichaelJ** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

That's not true - once you get to a certain standard on the Ring it's
very hard to knock seconds off your lap time.

- Michael

by **Txl** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

yes okay, but it's IMPOSSIBLE to get 1 second at watkins for exmaple.

I sent a mail to Uwe who answered very kindly that they have been thinking
about it, they might do it but not just yet.

the point is simple :

If you are a "regular driver" you make about 1.30 at monza, 9.00 at the ring
and 1.07 at watkins

If you beat the WORLD RECORD at these tracks, for some reason you wake up
one morning and you kick huttu's and weble's ass you will gain, FOR THE
WORLD RECORD

MONZA : handicap -5
WATKINS : Handicap -3
RING : Handicap -68

All I'm saying is that it's not really and completely fair, after all in F1
they don't get more points by winning monaco on the rain than by winning
hungary on the dry, see my point ?

> > What I mean is that we all know it is MUCH harder to win 1 sec in Monza
as
> > 10 seconds in Nurburg, and on the handicap ranking it pays 10 times more
to
> > win at the ring than in Monza.

> That's not true - once you get to a certain standard on the Ring it's
> very hard to knock seconds off your lap time.

> - Michael

by **Colin Harri** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

But it's not a competition against others, Txl, only against yourself! There
are no prizes, merely the satisfaction of shaving the odd tenth or two off
the best time you've EVER done! Just writing it gets me all gooey!!!

--
Colin Harris
ColinHarris in N3/NL & VROC
Remove "your knickers" to reply

> yes okay, but it's IMPOSSIBLE to get 1 second at watkins for exmaple.

> I sent a mail to Uwe who answered very kindly that they have been thinking
> about it, they might do it but not just yet.

> the point is simple :

> If you are a "regular driver" you make about 1.30 at monza, 9.00 at the
ring
> and 1.07 at watkins

> If you beat the WORLD RECORD at these tracks, for some reason you wake up
> one morning and you kick huttu's and weble's ass you will gain, FOR THE
> WORLD RECORD

> MONZA : handicap -5
> WATKINS : Handicap -3
> RING : Handicap -68

> All I'm saying is that it's not really and completely fair, after all in
F1
> they don't get more points by winning monaco on the rain than by winning
> hungary on the dry, see my point ?

> > > What I mean is that we all know it is MUCH harder to win 1 sec in
Monza
> as
> > > 10 seconds in Nurburg, and on the handicap ranking it pays 10 times
more
> to
> > > win at the ring than in Monza.

> > That's not true - once you get to a certain standard on the Ring it's
> > very hard to knock seconds off your lap time.

> > - Michael

by **Txl** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

That's definitely NOT true, the WHOLE point of GPL rank is to have a better
handicap....thna the other guys, and to as close as possible (not too close
for me) than the legends (huttu and weble for instance)

> But it's not a competition against others, Txl, only against yourself!
There
> are no prizes, merely the satisfaction of shaving the odd tenth or two off
> the best time you've EVER done! Just writing it gets me all gooey!!!

> --
> Colin Harris
> ColinHarris in N3/NL & VROC
> Remove "your knickers" to reply

> > yes okay, but it's IMPOSSIBLE to get 1 second at watkins for exmaple.

> > I sent a mail to Uwe who answered very kindly that they have been
thinking
> > about it, they might do it but not just yet.

> > the point is simple :

> > If you are a "regular driver" you make about 1.30 at monza, 9.00 at the
> ring
> > and 1.07 at watkins

> > If you beat the WORLD RECORD at these tracks, for some reason you wake
up
> > one morning and you kick huttu's and weble's ass you will gain, FOR THE
> > WORLD RECORD

> > MONZA : handicap -5
> > WATKINS : Handicap -3
> > RING : Handicap -68

> > All I'm saying is that it's not really and completely fair, after all in
> F1
> > they don't get more points by winning monaco on the rain than by winning
> > hungary on the dry, see my point ?

> > > > What I mean is that we all know it is MUCH harder to win 1 sec in
> Monza
> > as
> > > > 10 seconds in Nurburg, and on the handicap ranking it pays 10 times
> more
> > to
> > > > win at the ring than in Monza.

> > > That's not true - once you get to a certain standard on the Ring it's
> > > very hard to knock seconds off your lap time.

> > > - Michael

by **Mats Lofkvis** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> I think GPL rank should be the OVERALL way of ranking us, not a SPECIFIC way
> on long tracks.

There is no overall way of ranking us, whatever you invent will be
specific in one way or another. Inventing a ranking system liked
by everyone is as close to impossible as you will ever get.

Imo, the current gplrank is great. The concept is simple and I
believe the long tracks actually improves the ranking since it
is much harder to drive a complete ring lap way above your
limit without crashing than doing the same at e.g. watkins glen.

_
Mats Lofkvist

by **Daniel Froi** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

The one problem with your suggestion is that it assumes all tracks are of equal
difficulty. They are not. That is why the Ring must count more than the Glen or
any other track. Your system would void any track difference.

> Hello,

> The thing is GREAT and i'll never thank the authors enough for it.

> But I think the way the handicap is calculated now could be improved and
> made more fair.

> What I mean is that we all know it is MUCH harder to win 1 sec in Monza as
> 10 seconds in Nurburg, and on the handicap ranking it pays 10 times more to
> win at the ring than in Monza.

> So my idea is : Why not make a sort of proportional ranking, here would be
> the calculation.

> If Sierra standard time for the ring would be 9.00.00 so that's 540 seconds
> and my best laps would be 8.00.00 that would be 480 seconds, then instead of
> making my handicap -60 on this track why not make it by calculating a
> percentage value where sierra would be 100 and my lap would be worth around
> 88.89, in monza if sierra is 1.28 that's 88 s and my time is 1.26 thats 86
> and my handicap ratio is 97 (or better 0.97).

> Discussion opened

Daniel.Frois.vcf
< 1K Download

by **Txl** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I am not saying that the tracks are the same difficulty, but II say that
gaining 10 % of your best lap at watkins should pay as much as gaining 10 %
of your best time at the ring...and now it's not the case

> The one problem with your suggestion is that it assumes all tracks are of
equal
> difficulty. They are not. That is why the Ring must count more than the
Glen or
> any other track. Your system would void any track difference.

> > Hello,

> > The thing is GREAT and i'll never thank the authors enough for it.

> > But I think the way the handicap is calculated now could be improved and
> > made more fair.

> > What I mean is that we all know it is MUCH harder to win 1 sec in Monza
as
> > 10 seconds in Nurburg, and on the handicap ranking it pays 10 times more
to
> > win at the ring than in Monza.

> > So my idea is : Why not make a sort of proportional ranking, here would
be
> > the calculation.

> > If Sierra standard time for the ring would be 9.00.00 so that's 540
seconds
> > and my best laps would be 8.00.00 that would be 480 seconds, then
instead of
> > making my handicap -60 on this track why not make it by calculating a
> > percentage value where sierra would be 100 and my lap would be worth
around
> > 88.89, in monza if sierra is 1.28 that's 88 s and my time is 1.26 thats
86
> > and my handicap ratio is 97 (or better 0.97).

> > Discussion opened

by **Markus Stiepe** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Exactly Ace, maybe just another argument to add:

Just think of the Ring as, say, 5 tracks in GPL. Some people know part 1
good, others part 3, and so on. So if you suck at part 4, just learn that
"track", eventually, you will have learnt 5 additional tracks, for each you
make up 2 seconds, and *bang*, rockets you up in GPLRank by 10 seconds :)

I like it as it is, even tho I suck at the Ring. But it's not the purpose of
GPLRank to be on top of the world (we got Schubi for that), but rather to
see what others do. I'm in several leagues, and I often go "spy" on the
others to see what my chances in the next race might be :)

cya
Maaki

--
________________________________
Check out my home once in a while:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
........still a lot of work to be done
________________________________

> NO NO NO NO NO!!!
> and NO again!!!

> Have you read the GPLRank FAQ? It explains there exactly why the system is
> as it is. Why do people think the Nurburgring is so ***y *different*? So
> what if it's a long lap? There is plenty of time to be made up there( by
> some), because it takes a while to learn, and until you know the circuit,
> it'll be difficult to go quickly. Come to think of it though, it's
difficult
> to be quick anywhere if you don't know the track, the 'Ring just takes
> longer to learn.
> Once you start doing good laps at the 'ring, you'll find that squeezing
out
> an extra second there can be just as hard, if not harder than Monza,
because
> the whole lap is very intense. Secondly, it's also easier to *loose* time
at
> the Nurburgring, because there are *so* many places to get it wrong (and
in
> a big way).
> I sincerely hope GPLRank stays the way it is, which is the most logical
and
> sensible way to do it.
> IMHO, people should spend less time complaining, and spend that time
working
> on their lap-times. Discussion closed.
> --
> -Ace-

> > Hello,

> > The thing is GREAT and i'll never thank the authors enough for it.

> > But I think the way the handicap is calculated now could be improved and
> > made more fair.

> > What I mean is that we all know it is MUCH harder to win 1 sec in Monza
as
> > 10 seconds in Nurburg, and on the handicap ranking it pays 10 times more
> to
> > win at the ring than in Monza.

> > So my idea is : Why not make a sort of proportional ranking, here would
be
> > the calculation.

> > If Sierra standard time for the ring would be 9.00.00 so that's 540
> seconds
> > and my best laps would be 8.00.00 that would be 480 seconds, then
instead
> of
> > making my handicap -60 on this track why not make it by calculating a
> > percentage value where sierra would be 100 and my lap would be worth
> around
> > 88.89, in monza if sierra is 1.28 that's 88 s and my time is 1.26 thats
86
> > and my handicap ratio is 97 (or better 0.97).

> > Discussion opened

by **Ruud van Ga** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>In the lastweeks I remember seeing a long post here about "are the GPL
>people intolerant", well i think I've just woken up some of the best
>specimen here.

Perhaps it was a bit because this discussion was done a week or so
ago. I even proposed something like you state, namely making each
TRACK equally important.
However, given time on all tracks, the time you do on the Ring does
show how good you are a lot, and dividing the progress you make there
would also be non-logical, in a sense, cause that would say "Your
overall speed at the Ring is not valued as much as your overall speed
at Monza".
Uwe has taken the path to see GPL as 1 big track split up into
different names. Which is good. In fact, he stated that TURNS are what
racing is mostly about, and did some number tricks showing that the
Ring contains 54% (or so) of the turns in the whole of GPL, so the
Ring DESERVES the impact it has on your ranking.

Yup.
...

You'll take those 3 secs gladly once you reach your limit on the Ring
anyhow.
But sure, a dual ranking system, a bit like St. Eldred's Cup, but
percentage-wise, would be nice though.

Ruud van Gaal
MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl
Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

by **Jim Dombrowsk** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

If the tracks aren't equal like everyone agree's then why should 10% of
Watkins be equal to 10% of the ring? That 10% of the ring is much longer,
takes more time and effort to master, why shouldn't it be recognized as so?
The only time the tracks are equal is in a championship season. . Either you
win or you don't. But GPL rank is not a measure of that. It's a measure of
every mile in the entire circuit.
You see some cars and drivers are better at tracks like Monza, some are
better at tracks like the Ring. Even at the Ring, some are faster in the
straight sections, and others are better in the curves. GPL rank takes into
consideration every mile in the '67 season. It is a time trials competition.
Not a measure of who wins the most races.
The overall GPL rank handicap is like taking all the tracks and putting
them in a blender and then sifting out the contents.

Jim D.

>I am not saying that the tracks are the same difficulty, but II say that
>gaining 10 % of your best lap at watkins should pay as much as gaining 10 %
>of your best time at the ring...and now it's not the case

>> The one problem with your suggestion is that it assumes all tracks are of
>equal
>> difficulty. They are not. That is why the Ring must count more than the
>Glen or
>> any other track. Your system would void any track difference.

>> > Hello,

>> > The thing is GREAT and i'll never thank the authors enough for it.

>> > But I think the way the handicap is calculated now could be improved
and
>> > made more fair.

>> > What I mean is that we all know it is MUCH harder to win 1 sec in Monza
>as
>> > 10 seconds in Nurburg, and on the handicap ranking it pays 10 times
more
>to
>> > win at the ring than in Monza.

>> > So my idea is : Why not make a sort of proportional ranking, here would
>be
>> > the calculation.

>> > If Sierra standard time for the ring would be 9.00.00 so that's 540
>seconds
>> > and my best laps would be 8.00.00 that would be 480 seconds, then
>instead of
>> > making my handicap -60 on this track why not make it by calculating a
>> > percentage value where sierra would be 100 and my lap would be worth
>around
>> > 88.89, in monza if sierra is 1.28 that's 88 s and my time is 1.26 thats
>86
>> > and my handicap ratio is 97 (or better 0.97).

>> > Discussion opened

by **Ace** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

You don't suck at all! Your PB at the 'ring is only ~1sec slower than mine.
(OK, we both suck <vbg>)
--
-Ace-

<snip>

by **Ace** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Then you're missing the point. Sure, it's interesting to see how you
compare, but If that's the way you look at it, is'nt your suggestion to
change the handicap system just an attempt to get higher up the leaderboard?
I wondered what your times were like, so I looked on GPLRank, and, as I
suspected, there's room for improvement at the 'ring, and I'm guessing you
can't be bothered to make the effort.
I could say the same for myself, at Monaco and Mexico, I hate those tracks,
but I made the time to try and lower my time there. My goal is a negative
handicap, wherever I rank, and I know I'll have to master all the tracks,
like 'em or not. If I was racing for the title, I'd have to be competitive
everywhere.
--
-Ace-
(GPLRank +4.88)

> That's definitely NOT true, the WHOLE point of GPL rank is to have a
better
> handicap....thna the other guys, and to as close as possible (not too
close
> for me) than the legends (huttu and weble for instance)

> > But it's not a competition against others, Txl, only against yourself!
> There
> > are no prizes, merely the satisfaction of shaving the odd tenth or two
off
> > the best time you've EVER done! Just writing it gets me all gooey!!!

by **Ace** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

> If you love the rign so much for its difference than why don't you measure
> your best timle in monza.....on 6 laps instead on 1, you would have to be
> concentrated for about the the same time as for a ring lap...

> But I see your point, I am just expressing an IDEA

I just thought your idea was a bad one. 6 laps of monza has 6x6 corners,
=36. and should take about 9 minutes. One lap of the ring has 174 corners,
many on gradients, and should take from 8mins (very good lap) to 9mins
(average). So, in the same amount of time, or longer, at monza, you still
only do roughly 1/5 of the amount of turns at the Nurburgring. And,
incidentally, My favourite track is Zandvoort. I don't particularly like the
'ring, but I do know it's one of the most rewarding to get right.
--
-Ace-

by **Ace** » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Seal Culling, perhaps?
--
-Ace-

> If I knew what you ment I could have answered...

> > Cool, Can you do keel hulling in it?

> > Jim D.

rec.autos.simulators

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION

GPL RANK : MAJOR CHANGE DISCUSSION