rec.autos.simulators

I've been playing GPL for about two months now.  I can lap consistently,
and finish in the top ten in AI races.  My best Glen time is about 1:08,
so again, nothing brilliant, but enough to have fun, and also enough to
have come to grips with the difficulty of this game.  I started it up last
night and just drove laps of the Ring in a Ferrari.  The overall
impressions of the game were the same as ever - lovely sound, fairly lush
graphics (I like the pastel pallette somehow), runs reasonably well on the
old PII300 - Voodoo II, fabulous 3D***pit.  The driving was, as ever, a
challenge.  Concentration required all the time.  I've still a long way to
go to figure out the Ring.  After an hour I was ready for a break.

Installed Rally Championship (hey, is that discipline or what, playing a
whole hour of GPL before trying the newest thing).  Lovely graphics (I
will reserve the title photo-realistic for the games that will be along in
another 3 years or so; there is no mistaking the in-game graphics for what
they are - in-game graphics).  Rather choppy on my "low
end" (erk) system.  Sounds were acceptable, although the backfire was a
bit much after a while (as someone else said, it sounds like a bowling
ball loose in the back of the car).  Oh, I found the menus to be a bit
tedious, especially when it came to tweaking the controller (more
later).  The game does an excellent job of capturing many aspects of rally
racing, and rural Britain.  The roads are the proper width
(i.e. unbelievably narrow), the fear factor is there when storming along
in 6th gear on loose gravel, and the absolute dependence on pace notes is
spot on.  I played around with driving views.  Overall I would love to use
the middle in-car view (for a better positional awareness than the
driver's side view), but the frame rate bogged down.  I tried the bumper
cam, but almost made myself sick, partly from the crazy steering
inputs.  I ended up switching between the near chase when I wanted to
drive cleanly, and the view on the bonnet when I felt guilty for not being
true to my sim-driver roots.  Sadly, my first experience with the game
lasted only 30 minutes.  I must have been out to the menu screen a dozen
times (and how many levels down does one have to go... still, I can see
the point of allowing each player to set their own controller preferences,
but one thing I couldn't figure out - I have the German release - was
whether or not one can actually save different player profiles, as in
GPL).  I tried all sorts of different dead zone settings and never hit on
something I liked.  Either it was on-off steering, or it was nothing,
followed by over-corrections.  I'm sure eventually I will get the hang of
it, but my initial impression was frustrating.  Overall I found the
driving physics to be not as loathsome as some might say, but certainly
not as brilliant as others feel they are.  Yes, the brakes are too
strong.  Yes, the car feels a touch light, but this just gives me a better
feel that I am driving a rally car - these things are always "light".  I
destroyed my poor Golf, so I think the damage modelling is adequate to
make the game a challenge, while making concessions to overall
playability.  But the steering ruins it for me.  

By the way, I just looked at the movies for Rally Masters, and they look
promising...

finally, I dug out SCGT.  I had written it off long ago, but finally
discovered the various patches for it.  I re-installed, bumped the physics
to realistic, got rid of the sticky grass, and had a blast.  I was still
driving at 1:00am.  The driving itself may not be the same level of
challenge as GPL, and I will keep that on my HD for precisely that
challenge, and because the model itself fascinates me as a mechanical
engineer, but SCGT is IMHO, much more "fun" than GPL.  The racing can be
quite furious, with a larger window for error, allowing more satisfying
one-in-a-hundred passes.  The same could be said for TOCA etc, but the
physics model in SCGT is just more convincing than TOCA, NASCAR, GP2
etc.  With the seemingly exponential expansion of add-ons for SCGT, this
looks to be one that has come back from the depths of my rubbish bin to
catch a large amount of my time.  I'm already looking forward to running
some old Lotus Cortinas with the 60s physics model (imagine, some other
weirdo out there in sim land sees the beauty of the old Cortina, and even
makes the effort to model one!).  

So, the way it stands now for this average racer is that my hard drive has
been purged of old, dusty copies of NASCAR, ICR2, GP2 etc.  All that's
left is GPL an SCGT.  I will give RC2000 another week of attention to see
if I can get around the crazy steering.  For an almost ***ic
challenge, I will continue to race GPL, but I don't know if my job, social
life or skiing passion will allow me to ever reach the levels of a some of
the others on this group, and it seems until one reaches that level, GPL
will never become a passion.  SCGT looks to be taking up more of my time
in the future.

Rambling over.
Stephen

This is exactly the type of thing I'm interested in reading!

I consider myself on par (perhaps even less so) a sim driver as yourself,
and with about the same level of interest, so hearing your thoughts on
RC2000 I felt myself saying some of the same things (although I've only
played the demo2) about it's frustrating driveability.

I'm less interested in how accurate RC2000 models a REAL rally car, how
light it is, and so forth, as I am interested in how driveable the game is,
and how much fun or how frustrating it is.

Please let me know what you think of this game/sim after you've given it
another week, as you said.

Thanks again!
Jay J

Interesting rambling Steve. I haven't tried SCGT yet, I'm tempted,
but as you know computers in general take up enough time as it is.
Have you tried Viper Racing ? I was totally into it for a while and rank
it second to GPL in those that I've tried. I'm curious as to how
you'd rate it compared to SCGT.
--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.

Aaaaaaaaaaaah! Aussie V8 Touring cars are most definitely all rear wheel
drive. The yanks might be almost completely FWD these days, but Australia
still tends to prefer RWD.

 - Peter

   Kalgoorlie, Western Australia.

: Interesting rambling Steve. I haven't tried SCGT yet, I'm tempted,
: but as you know computers in general take up enough time as it is.
: Have you tried Viper Racing ? I was totally into it for a while and rank
: it second to GPL in those that I've tried. I'm curious as to how
: you'd rate it compared to SCGT.

I liked the demo, and especially liked the physics model.  I'd say it
falls between SCGT and GPL.  I also liked the neat little touches, like
the X-ray view. (hey, I'm a mech eng - I love suspensions).  But in the
end, given the choice between running Vipers (not my favourite car by a
long shot) on fantasy courses, or running real tracks in real cars (with
lots on the way, as the editing community for SCGT is exploding), I would
choose SCGT.  I qualify this by acknowledging I'm trading away some
realism for fun.  SCGT reminds me a lot of Gran Turismo on the
Playstation.  Sort of a light sim, but quite ***ive.

Stephen

*BUT*, I still find the steering dodgy.  There, I said it.  No one can
blame me for not giving an objective review.  I fiddled with steering
sensitivity, deadzones etc. and have a setting that is almost
acceptable.  Mind you, it still jumps around like a five year old on Cocoa
Puffs, but I can control it.

But anyway, I gave the game a much more thorough play last night, and I'm
rather hooked.  My initial impression of the graphics was based on some
of the more repetitive,  bland stages.  Once you get into the woods, with
sunlight streaming through the trees, then the game's graphics
shine (pardon the pun).

I also learned to slow down to go faster, and by the end of the night was
keeping it on the road 95% of the time.  In some ways, the game is now
more satisfying than GPL (ooh, I'm gonna' get crucified for that) because
I have the feeling that, if I***up a corner, it is either because I
mis-read it, or made a colossal error in driving, rather than just a
slight twitch at the wrong time on the wheel.  I like this forgiving
nature in a rally sim, and it feels more realistic.  

I like the choice of cars, but would like to hear a few more engine
sounds.  I spent a lot of time driving the Micra, of all things, and kept
thinking "Mini Cooper" as I weaved this little gem through the
twisties.  It's not fast, but it's somehow satisfying.  Of course, the
grin didn't last long, as I often was scaring my pants off over blind
crests.  This sim has about 100 times as many "popcorn tossing" moments
than GPL.  Sure, the 'Ring has its share of gotchas, but there are about
fif*** gotchas on each stage.  

For a change, I turned off the map and co-driver, and treated the game as
one big illegal jaunt through the countryside.  Mr. Toad's wild ride it
was.  What a hoot.  Much more fun than a "Need for Speed" title for
simulating such backroad hijinks.

A few more downers: you'll want to upgrade.  I refuse to believe the
average consumer has a PIII-500 or Athlon.  On my lowly PII-300 I can
forget about all first-person views except the bumper cam, which is a
shame because the raindrops are nice.  Having said that, the frame rate is
solid from the bumper cam.

Unless you have a mega-system, forget about two-player or arcade mode, but
this doesn't really bother me, because that's not what rally is about.

The menus are tedious at times.

But overall, I'm happy to keep it.  It has its flaws, but the rewards seem
to compensate.  The early morning stages alone are worth the price of
admission.  If you try it, and find yourself ready to toss it out after
ten minutes with the comment "what the *** is wrong with the steering?", I
would recommend you persevere and find a half-way driveable setup, because
eventually the good parts of this title will shine through and you'll
(almost) forget the crazy controls and just get down to the business of
trying to keep 1000kg of frantic motorcar on the road.

Stephen

p.s. and who hasn't slid down the banking into a stream, never to return
again?  That was a nice touch.

Stephen,

     I've been running GPL online since just about the beginning of VROC and
I'm still hooked. But I also run a Nascar3 league. When I need a break,and
just want to have some racin' fun,I pull out my SCGT CD and run the Trans-Am
cars. I find them to be the most fun in terms of racing,even better than the
GT-1s.

Joel Willstein