rec.autos.simulators

I built a preliminary 3-LED clip last night and mounted it to my
headset.  I haven't have chance to drive with it yet.  I did hop into
an rF3 in rFactor and let the AI drive while I watched.

It looks like it will be really cool.  The panning was pretty smooth.
It was surprisingly comfortable and intuitive.  After a few laps I was
reflexively looking into the apex in each turn without having to think
about it.

I'm not sure it's an advantage at all.  It's disconcerting in a
simulation to have my view point change relative to the vehicle.  I
think I can probably drive more accurately with a fixed view.  I'm
going to try and get used to it just for the 'coolness' factor that it
adds to the driving.

On a related note, I had a chance to drive a shifter kart last week at
New Castle Motorsports Park near Indianapolis.  After driving
simulations all winter, and getting used to the fixed field of view,
it seemed strange to have that freedom that head movement allows
relative to the vehicle.  It really struck me because at first I
didn't seem to be able to place the vehicle as accurately in the turns
as I do in sims.  It was immediately apparent to me that I was
experiencing the difference between the fixed field of view in sims
versus the freedom of viewpoint movement in real life.  I'm interested
to see if using FreeTrack turns out to be more like real life.

Pat Dotson

As for simulated vs. real racing, I find fatigue after an hour or so
in a kart to be the major factor influencing my "performance" as a
race driver. While I work out regularly and cycle a lot, I find that
it won't prepare you for your neck getting "long" and your arms
starting to hurt ;-)

Cheers, uwe

The Freetrack organization is advertising Wii support in their next
software release.

That may be worth looking into.  The Wii remotes are about $40 USD.  I
don't know how they plan to build a reciever that will pick up that
signal.

I had a chance to do some driving last night in rFactor.  Getting used
to the head tracking wasn't as bad as I expected.  As long as the head
tracking stayed smooth it was relatively easy to hit my marks.  If I
moved my head to look down at the gauges it was a little dis-
orienting, but that will probably pass with time.

I also did a little flying in FSX, and that was really cool too.  I
think head tracking is more useful for flight sims than racing sims.

Different issue, but yea.  I've only really experienced significant
fatigue during long indoor rental kart events though.  The 'real'
karting I've done is either oval karting where races are relatively
short (plus yellows), or practice on road courses where I've only gone
6 to 8 laps at a time.

If you own your own kart try reducing caster.  It's a lot easier on
the arms, and in my experience you don't need a ton of caster to go
fast  :)

Pat Dotson

I've had to play around a lot with the response curves to find
something comfortable.  You can amplify the response, or make it close
to reality.  You can also apply dead zones and non-linear response.
Control over the viewpoint movement is fairly complete.

But you are right.  The viewpoint changes on the monitor as you turn
your head, but you still have to look toward the center of the
screen.  The only way past that problem is a head mounted display.
(Side note: Can you believe it's going on 2010 now and there still
aren't good and cheap HMD's?!?  I wouldn't have believed it if you'd
told me that 10 years ago).

All I can say is that your mind can apparently adapt to this sort of
thing.  For me it seemed pretty intuitive after just a few minutes.
One thing about my setup is I'm also using TH2Go.  It's kind of nice
to be able to approach apexes that aren't lost in or have to jump
across the gap between the screens.  I think the hottest ticket might
be a large format LCD plus head tracking.

As far as head tracking being more real or not, I've been concerned
for a while about how much I rely on the relatively static location of
the simulated***pit as a gauge to hit my marks.  When I got in that
kart last week it was very apparent.  Without the fixed frame of
reference of the monitor edges it just felt wierd, and was difficult
to hit marks at first.  Like adapting to thing in a simulation, it
only took a few laps to start feeling more at home, but there is
definitely a disconnect there between real race driving and sim racing
with a fixed POV.

My opinion right now is that, for someone who will be doing both sim
racing and real racing, a somewhat unrealistic disconnect between POV
and the chassis may be more preferable than a fixed POV relative to
the chassis.  I need to get a lot more experience jumping back and
forth between the two to know for sure.

Pat Dotson
UltraForce Simulations LLC
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

This guy has done a lot of stuff with the Wii remote.

HTH,
All the best,
Ash

--
http://www.siroccoracing.com

I didn't realize the Wii remotes are LED based.  I always figured they
were accelerometer based, then used some sort of wireless
communication to transfer control signals.  Now the Wii/Freetrack
connection makes more sense.  Thanks for the link.

Pat Dotson

They are actually based on both.  The wii remote is a camera rather
than the LED emmiter.  The thing on top of the TV has infrared LEDs in
it.  It also uses accelerometers to figure out where it is in space,
it communicates with the Wii (or PC) using bluetooth.

All the best,
Ash

It could be just me but any form of look to apex or look right/left just
  feels all wrong and I fly off the track!

Maybe I just can't adjust to it like others have but I need a fixed
point ahead and physically look around not have the viewpoint changing
in front of me.

Cheers
Tony

Yea, you are surely right.  There is no way that head tracking with a
fixed monitor mirrors reality.  It's still cool, but probably needs to
be consigned to flight sims.

I'm still wishing for good HMD's.

--
Pat Dotson

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Unfortunately I can't afford the real world, but I know what you mean -
the first example that springs to mind being the braking point on top of
the hill at Watkins Glen, where you brake just after the advert board
disappears from the screen :) which doesn't work in real life, I guess.

--
Phil

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

The trouble is that it doesn't track your eye movement, but rather
your head movement.  So your neck/head is determining where you look
on-screen.  A friend of mine drives with a lot of body English, so his
view bounces all around unexpectedly.

I'm pretty sure that you should be able to adjust the sensitivity
(it's variable through the range of movement of the head) so that
looking to the apex takes a large change of head angle, and then
looking further to the side to see if a car is beside you takes a
smaller further angle change.

Bob Simpson

Freetrack (and TrackIR I expect) provide a graphical representation of
the response curve for each axis of movement.  So yes, you can do
exactly what you decribe.  You can also apply a dead zone so that you
get no movement in POV while your head is near straight ahead.

You can also turn off any axis completely.  I'm set up for six degrees
of freedom right now.  For racing I turn off roll and longitudinal
response.  I've tried it with and without lateral and vertical
response.  For serious racing I'd probably only use yaw and pitch
response with a large "soft" zone as Freetrack calls it, which is a
non-linear response curve like Bob described.

For flight sims you can turn all six axes on without much concern.
It's cool to be able to lean over and look downward out of the side
window.  You can also sit up straighter and look down on the nose of
the plane.

Pat Dotson