Ooops!
Sorry, Mark!
Sometimes 'snips' can be confusing :-)
> Hello Bruce. The statement you quote as being incorrect came from
> Byron Forbes.
Bruce.
(At home)
Ooops!
Sorry, Mark!
Sometimes 'snips' can be confusing :-)
> > Bottom line - if you're powersliding in GPL you're wasting time. Don't
> > judge a sim based on a less than optimal driving technique.
> > Cheers,
> > Richard
> also
> dont forget that you cannot modify the setup of the cars as of yet.
> one more thing
> if you ever play nascar 2 ICR 2 and the rest , amd you set the realism
> to full for damage . I find I drive a LOT less spectacularly
> and a lot smoother, no feeling like running the Indianapolis 499!
> and wadding it on the backstretch of the last lap
> just my 10 cents
> > I am a retired Police Officer.
> > I am used to wrestling HUGE FORD GALAXIES (in my day --- thats what
> > they called them) at speeds approaching one hundred mikes per hour.
> > If you watch the movie GRAND PRIX ----- available on video Disk
> > somewhere -------- in letterbox form -------- I also have MY COPY in
> > BOTH FORMS!!!! :-) -------- you will see that NO ONE in their RIGHT
> > MINDS wants to FIGHT the WHEEL like the GPL simulation wants you to
> > believe.
> > Jim Clark, Graham Hill and all the others were brave men ------- but
> > not stupid. They valued their life as much as anyone -------- and I
> > think this simulation has everyone thinking these were nothing more
> > than barely guided missles ------ which they were not.
> > A FORD GALAXIE or DODGE CORONET at one hundred and twenty miles per
> > hour has more control than the simulation has -------- and I am
> > beginning to think this is a bit laughable to say the least.
> > I think it is time to go back to the drawing board and make it real
> > for a change ------- rather than trying to convince us these cars were
> > really like this -------- when they were not.
> > Watching GRAND PRIX will give you FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE of what it was
> > like then (it was filmed just a year before) and was filmed over the
> > same tracks esentially ------ that will be in the sim --------- I
> > GUARANTEE YOU you don't see these guys countersteering powerslides and
> > all that other bullshit PAPYRUS is saying went on then.
> > THAT kind of stuff SLOWS YOU DOWN --------- not make you faster!! HA
> > I have also had the enjoyment of "hog wrestling" ICR2 as well
> > ---------- interestingly enough ------------- the sim behaves much the
> > same way as GPL does now.
> > ARE THEY GOING TO SAY THAT IS THE WAY THE INDY CARS BEHAVE??
> > Of course not ------------- they couldn't get away with THAT
> > ---------- but maybe they can blow enough smoke up out asses with GPL
> > to make us believe them .
> > If you repeat the same thing enough times------- you can convince
> > yourself of anything!!!!!
> I agree with you completely. I'm glad to hear from someone over 40 that
> wasn't in diapers or not even born in the 60's and actually has some
> experience driving older cars. It's amazing all the BS that's coming out
> in this n.g. about how people think cars handled back then and how sims
> so closely mirrow reality. People, it aint so-- I have hundreds of
> hours(admittedly 10 years ago) in helicopter simulators and while they
> were a great training tool(especially for instrument flying, engaging
> targets and other such training and I EMPHASIZE training) they are not
> even close when it comes to the physical demands of actually operating a
> aircraft in various real world enviornments. Now back to GPL--I LIKE
> IT!!!! but the handling(steering) of the car is not realistic. No car
> can be that difficult to steer on straights and be realistic. NO, I
> never drove a GP car of that era but I did get some seat time as an
> amateur in the late 60's in sports cars(TR-4A, Sunbeam Tiger, and
> Formula V's) amd beleive me, if you had to fight the car down the
> straight at 130+ you were not about to try to fight a drift through a
> turn with such an unstable car. Sure there was plenty of feedback
> viberating back up through the steering and constant steering inputs
> being applied but when you got it straighten out you hoped you might get
> a second to relax. I know many of you will disagree with me, remember
> this is my experiencees that formed my opinions. The bottom line is
> that GPL is a fun sim with great graphics and a totally different
> modeled car than previous sims and it reacts and handles differently
> than other race sims as it should but IT IS ONLY A SIMULATION OF THE
> REAL THING and we can not and should not try to justify it's playability
> based on what we perceive is realistic. If you like it, good--say so and
> why; if you don't like it or some aspect of it,good--say so and why, but
> why do we have to call each other names if we don't agree with their
> opinions. It's so juvenile and counter productive. After all, each side
> may change their minds after the final product is realised. Have a
> great time with whatever sim you like, I will.
1/ Set the linearity slider all the way to the right ie full non
linearity.
2/ Get accustomed to Papy's excellent modelling of body roll/weight
transfer. These are also lightly sprung cars don't forget.
Well, Byron old son, we'll agree to disagree.
I think too many people are placing too much importance on something as old as this
"demo". We all know that it is a developmental tool that has been tarted up to give
us a taste of what the final product will offer. It doesn't need this little demo to
enable us to pick any glaring errors (6-speed/5-speed) and I certainly don't think we
are going to be able to deduce exactly what the final dynamics/physics of the cars
will be like.
To me, this is a "stocking filler"....a tid-bit that has been thrown to us by Papyrus
(and for that I thank them....don't get me wrong!) in order to garner some feedback
and also to keep the cries of "WHEN WILL IT BE OUT?!" at bay. I am simply not making
any *major* judgment on what Grand Prix Legends will be like by what this demo offers
and I think that those who do so are being somewhat premature.
(snipped)
--
Bruce.
(At home)
> I am used to wrestling HUGE FORD GALAXIES (in my day --- thats what
> they called them) at speeds approaching one hundred mikes per hour.
> If you watch the movie GRAND PRIX ----- available on video Disk
> somewhere -------- in letterbox form -------- I also have MY COPY in
> BOTH FORMS!!!! :-) -------- you will see that NO ONE in their RIGHT
> MINDS wants to FIGHT the WHEEL like the GPL simulation wants you to
> believe.
> Jim Clark, Graham Hill and all the others were brave men ------- but
> not stupid. They valued their life as much as anyone -------- and I
> think this simulation has everyone thinking these were nothing more
> than barely guided missles ------ which they were not.
> A FORD GALAXIE or DODGE CORONET at one hundred and twenty miles per
> hour has more control than the simulation has -------- and I am
> beginning to think this is a bit laughable to say the least.
> I think it is time to go back to the drawing board and make it real
> for a change ------- rather than trying to convince us these cars were
> really like this -------- when they were not.
> Watching GRAND PRIX will give you FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE of what it was
> like then (it was filmed just a year before) and was filmed over the
> same tracks esentially ------ that will be in the sim --------- I
> GUARANTEE YOU you don't see these guys countersteering powerslides and
> all that other bullshit PAPYRUS is saying went on then.
> THAT kind of stuff SLOWS YOU DOWN --------- not make you faster!! HA
> I have also had the enjoyment of "hog wrestling" ICR2 as well
> ---------- interestingly enough ------------- the sim behaves much the
> same way as GPL does now.
> ARE THEY GOING TO SAY THAT IS THE WAY THE INDY CARS BEHAVE??
> Of course not ------------- they couldn't get away with THAT
> ---------- but maybe they can blow enough smoke up out asses with GPL
> to make us believe them .
> If you repeat the same thing enough times------- you can convince
> yourself of anything!!!!!
snip
> To me, this is a "stocking filler"....a tid-bit that has been thrown to us by Papyrus
> (and for that I thank them....don't get me wrong!) in order to garner some feedback
> and also to keep the cries of "WHEN WILL IT BE OUT?!" at bay. I am simply not making
l8er
ronny
--
Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure,
kiddo?"
|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!
<snip>
% In the end I believe its me who needs
% to practice more, if for no other reason than to simply 'get used to it' while
% at the same time I still think the demo driving model is overly loose,
% even given the era it portrays.
From experience of dealing with Papy's default setups, I am holding out
judgement until I can dial in the car to suit my driving style. I think
alot of my problems is that I have an extremely hard time driving with
someone else's setup. Some people are better at adapting their driving
to match a setup, while others are better at adapting a setup to match
their driving style. I fall somewhere in the middle, and in GPL I seem
to be falling all over the map! ;-)
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>If you are having trouble controlling the wheel, try altering the
>linearity. A fully linear setting makes it the easiest to turn into the
>corners accurately and apply minor corrections, but some may find this
>too twitchy on the straights without a very good wheel.
One of the things that a lot of first time autocross drivers
find (much to their annoyance) is that adding loads of horsepower
to their cars usually results in slower times on course. Adding
all that horsepower doesn't do squat for them in that they aren't
smooth enough as drivers to use all of the car they had before
they went and spent all that money on performance parts.
Or the differing physics of a car with more horsepower than
those Galaxies and Coronets, with less than 1/3 of the weight.
It does go to show just how good the physics model is in
GPL...you nail the accelerator, and it does become hard to
steer...not only are you spinning the tires in the lower gears,
but the weight transfer makes the front end awfully light as
well. This adds to the "twitchy" feeling. If you feather the gas
a bit, you'll find the car is easier to drive...but, of course,
not faster. <g>
Same applies to backing off the gas suddenly and unloading the
rear tires...the rear end gets light, and since most of the
weight is back there, it naturally wants to swap ends with the
front.
Exactly...just because you *can* do it doesn't mean it's the
correct way to do it.
One I always remembered was back in the early '70's when some
motocross riders complained of the differences in the "factory"
(works) bikes of Suzuki, CZ, Maico, etc. to what was then
available in the local motorcycle shop. One magazine writer made
the comment to the effect that if those riders could ride the
"works" bike, a rider of the caliber of a Roger DeCoster or Joel
Robert, could still beat them using an off the showroom floor
"enduro" model: lights, turn signals and all. In a nutshell, the
rider (driver) can make more difference than the
equipment....something I still find true to this day.
Regards,
Doc
I'm with you one hundred percent.
>I am used to wrestling HUGE FORD GALAXIES (in my day --- thats what
>they called them) at speeds approaching one hundred mikes per hour.
>If you watch the movie GRAND PRIX ----- available on video Disk
>somewhere -------- in letterbox form -------- I also have MY COPY in
>BOTH FORMS!!!! :-) -------- you will see that NO ONE in their RIGHT
>MINDS wants to FIGHT the WHEEL like the GPL simulation wants you to
>believe.
>Jim Clark, Graham Hill and all the others were brave men ------- but
>not stupid. They valued their life as much as anyone -------- and I
>think this simulation has everyone thinking these were nothing more
>than barely guided missles ------ which they were not.
>A FORD GALAXIE or DODGE CORONET at one hundred and twenty miles per
>hour has more control than the simulation has -------- and I am
>beginning to think this is a bit laughable to say the least.
>I think it is time to go back to the drawing board and make it real
>for a change ------- rather than trying to convince us these cars were
>really like this -------- when they were not.
>Watching GRAND PRIX will give you FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE of what it was
>like then (it was filmed just a year before) and was filmed over the
>same tracks esentially ------ that will be in the sim --------- I
>GUARANTEE YOU you don't see these guys countersteering powerslides and
>all that other bullshit PAPYRUS is saying went on then.
>THAT kind of stuff SLOWS YOU DOWN --------- not make you faster!! HA
>I have also had the enjoyment of "hog wrestling" ICR2 as well
>---------- interestingly enough ------------- the sim behaves much the
>same way as GPL does now.
>ARE THEY GOING TO SAY THAT IS THE WAY THE INDY CARS BEHAVE??
>Of course not ------------- they couldn't get away with THAT
>---------- but maybe they can blow enough smoke up out asses with GPL
>to make us believe them .
>If you repeat the same thing enough times------- you can convince
>yourself of anything!!!!!