rec.autos.simulators

First of all, the Hawaii server is TOO UNSTABLE.  Until Papyrus can iron
out the problems with the server bouncing people around, Hawaii is not
worth the time.

Secondly, after being taken out on the second lap in only my second race on
Hawaii, I will no longer use the service.  Another driver ran up behind me
in turn one, even though I had the inside line all the way.  He ran right
into my right rear fender, deliberately sending me into the wall.  I am an
experienced racer who had qualified third in that race, so it wasn't an
issue of ME not knowing how to drive, but an ugly incident which has turned
me off of Hawaii for good.

If you are thinking about getting involved witht he Hawaii multiplayer
network, DON'T BOTHER.

Kirn Cromur

Wow...very bitter, too bad we won't be blessed by your "talent". Geeez,
lighten up! Put in some time, raise your rating, (if you can) and compete
in some races that have some experienced drivers. This is an incredible
thing Papyrus has done. Something that was unthinkable a short time ago.
If you haven't got the maturity to deal with the fact that it's not
"perfect" right from day one, maybe you need some life experience....

LB
Hawaii: Rustbucket

As for people running into other people, racing online against real
humans is VERY different from racing against computer cars.  Everyone is
ou there learning at the same time.  Frankly, the best strategy at the
start (as in when you first try Hawaii), is to hang way back at the
start of the race.  Inexperienced users tend to try to win the race on
the first lap.  Hang back, wait for any accidents to occur in front of
you, then pass & enjoy the rest of the race.  The people who crash on
the first lap will prbably never catch up.
--
Ed Martin
Papyrus Design Group

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MP
Scurvydog #00  Simpson-Cowlings Motorsports
http://pwp.usa.pipeline.com/~scurvydog/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I realize that I am simply a beta tester for the Hawaii network, but it's
just not worth it.  I agree that server problems can be forgiven, since
this is all just a trial right now.  However, having several cars pile up
at the start finish line at the drop of the green flag is a complete joke.
Papyrus can do nothing to improve or limit the idiocy expressed by MOST
Hawaii drivers.  I wasted 15 minutes waiting for a server for a race,
practicing and then qualifying, only to have several cars slam into me as I
waited for the cars in front of me to start moving (this was a no pace lap
race).

If Papyrus can set up a weeding system which will automatically and
permanently ban those drivers who deliberately wrech their cars, I will use
the service again.  Since this is essentially impossible to monitor and
accomplish, I won't be using Hawaii anymore.  There are too many four
year-olds on the network.

Kirn Cromur

Sorry, I have plenty of maturity.  The problem lies in those who lack it.
Sure, I'd love to raise my rating, but how can I do that when EVERY race
begins with a mass-accident?  How can I raise my rating when I can't even
start a lap because every car behind and in front of me is tangled in a
wreck which sweeps me into it?  I'm not going to waste my long distance
phone bill on people who find pleasure in simply slamming into other cars.

Kirn Cromur

It is a shame that you would let one incident turn you off to Hawaii.  
Sure there are frustrating things that happen in some races, like the one
you speak of.  But overall this multiplayer racing is great.  I would
hope to see you on there sometime in the future.

Don
DonC - Hawaii racer

The purpose of a beta is to discover any existing problems
and to determine the best way to overcome those problems. If
you want the final product to have those problems you
experienced to be resolved, then continue to participate and
report your findings. No one is forced to participate in a
beta.

Beta testing is like voting. If you don't vote, don't
complain about who is elected.

Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

Mike

        I have heard this same talk from almost every new user in the last few weeks!
Two races make you an experienced driver! I am approaching 7000 miles in MP racing and I
still think there is lots to learn! This game requires far more effort than the original
or modem play versions. Fast qualifying means absolutely zero, racing with other people is
what this game is all about. Perhaps if you dont have the time, that is required to learn
the skills involved it is better that you race by yourself!

        There is nothing worse than a bad driver! Yes, there is! A driver with a bad
Attitude!

        This, is by no means, a personal attack on your ability, even though I saw you on
the system and didnt race you directly. I'm not saying the accidents were your fault or
not because I dont know! I do know there are many poor drivers on the system, but as your
skill increases and you become more efficient, you do get asked into leagues and get away
from the poor drivers. If you are as good as you say you are then you shouldn't have to
worry about it for long.
        The first race I ever had on the system, I qualified number 1 in Tally, guess what
I got taken out in the pace lap. Did I cry, no! I figured the individual was new like me
and that he made a mistake. When I found out he was one of the fastest on that track and
one of the better drivers on the system. I was very disappointed! But in chatting with him
after he apologized and said that I rattled him and he lost his concentration. We have
become good friends since and have had some awesome races at Tally! Lap after lap of 197+
laps working together and a 15 second lead over 3rd. Plus being able to go through the tri
2 wide with no problem. I have even finished a race with Scott Nobles and Brian Tate, 3
across going through the tri, without touching! Trust(and a few deep breathes) is what it
takes to be successful. I dont think I want to try this to often but it can be done!
        I hope I havent been too harsh but you used very strong language and I have
answered in kind! Hopefully, you will change your mind and participate in the future, you
got to see the ugly side, you have yet to experience the good. Most long time users are
only to glad to help out the new users and get them over the initial hump.

        Pete

        This problem is being addressed by Papyrus and their ranking system, dload the file and
you will better understand why these bad drivers will eventually be forced to change their
driving habits.
        Also the league administrators are now doing their own monitoring and guess what, there
is a black list forming. And those constant abusers will not be allowed into Leagues, this is
being done independant of Papyrus by other racers, for the benefit of clean racing. No names
will be published but if you get turned down for participation then maybe your racing is a
problem. Conversely, lists of clean racers are also being kept and you never know who is
watching. Also behaviour is important, if you constantly swear and fight with everyone guess
what!
        I watched an idiot the other night abuse a Papyrus employee, who was working late on a
non work day(lately I think they live there) trying like hell to get the system back up. And
had to take abuse worse than I could tolerate! I know, if it had been me, there would have been
one less driver on the system.

        These are my own opinions, and in no way reflect Papyrus's view.

        Pete

You'll learn who NOT to get in a race with, and you'll find some people you
can't WAIT to race against! (Tim Olsen, are you out there???<g>)

Try it just once more...

________

Eldred Pickett

I am NOT paranoid.  And why are you always watching me?!?

with:

Kirn --

There are a few things to do to avoid what you're talking about.

A) AVOID TALLADEGA

Every newbie automatically goes to 'Dega first.  It's the easiest
track, fastest track, and many users go there thinking they're kings
of the draft.  Talladega is not a good pickup race to join, IMHO -- if
you want to race Dega, find a rating-limited event there.

B) WATCH THE F4 INFORMATION IN THE RACE SCHEDULER

If you see a bunch of 0 level drivers at a track, say at Michigan,
with constant weather, no damage (or arcade), 5% length, and no
yellows, then prepare yourself for some incidents.  I'm not saying you
shouldn't join -- you can raise your rating immensely by*** back,
letting everyone else wreck, and being VERY careful while they're
weaving all over the track.  Once your rating goes up, then you won't
have to be as selective.  The more time you spend on Hawaii, the more
"tells" you'll see on certain races.  For example, a 10% race D/Y/P at
Pocono is not likely to be a crashfest as much as a 5% Night A/ /P at
Bristol, etc.

C) FINISH YOUR RACES

There are people who get wrecked (not blown engines or race-stopping
events) who just quit the race altogether after an incident.  This is
partially due to hurt feelings, tempers, etc.  However, the way to get
your rating up is to FINISH THE RACE.  It doesn't matter if you're 8
laps down -- if you finish your race, it counts towards a rating
increase.  The only way to escape the dreaded 0-level events is to get
that rating up.

D) BE PATIENT

This is the hardest key of all.  You have to race SMART.  Don't race
like you did the AI on your home races.  You have to remember that
there are 3-12 other screaming wannabes on the track with you at the
same time.  Everyone's bound to make mistakes, even you.  The best way
to avoid them is to give everyone LOTS of room.  At the lower level
races, finishing equals winning.  When you get into the higher-level
races with more professional drivers, then you can worry about
strategy and stuff.  But in the beginning pickup races, patience will
save your butt.  If you have to, pull to the back of the field on a
pace lap or start to avoid the wrecks.

Take this with whatever grain of salt you want.  You may not agree
with what I say, but I'm a level-four racer and I'm talking from
painful experience.

Hope this helps.
_________________________________________
Tony Johns
IWCCCARS Project Coordinator
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~iwcc/project.htm

Talladega, damage on, 9 laps<?>

Qualified around 19th out of 36 drivers.  No pace lap

At the drop of the green I hung a hard right turn and parked right in
front of the pace car.  Watched everybody drive by, listened to the
crunches, picked up the gas and puttered around the 1st and 2nd turn
carnage at around 50 MPH.

Got up to speed, deftly avoided a couple other wrecks, and thanks to a
last-lap gift by a couple other drivers, brought my unscratched car
home in 5th place.

It can be done.  Patience is the key, and it's something a vast
majority of Hawaii racers is sorely lacking.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Winston Cup   7 41 23       Busch South    9 34 47       NCTS        7 07
Busch North  47 44 34 15    Mod Tour      21  8 10A      IRCA    93 39 96
Busch North & Modified Tour Home Pages at http://www.vgernet.net/aclaffie/
                 Real Racers Don't Race Talladega!

issue of ME............ but an ugly incident which has turned me off of
     >>>>>>> PREVIOUS TEXT ABRIDGED TO MAKE SOME SORT OF POINT <<<<<<<

   WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!   You've probably a lot of expierece being
     a quitter. I have no idea how old you are but I assume that if you
     have race experience you must be at least 8 (Rookie Karting).
   A word of advice if you want to be successful...TRY MORE THAN TWICE!