rec.autos.simulators

by **Paul Jage** » Sun, 15 Apr 2001 18:19:22

With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some
kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference is between
these two forms of motor racing.

Thanks

PJ

by **Chris Not** » Sun, 15 Apr 2001 20:40:52

>With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some
>kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference is between
>these two forms of motor racing.

CART: turbo 2.65 liter engines, race on ovals, street, and road courses
IRL: normally aspirated 3.5 liter engines, oval tracks only

For the full story, check their web sites:

http://www.cart.com/

http://www.indyracingleague.com/

by **Dave Henri** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 00:04:32

Both have thier roots in American Open Wheel racing run by the USAC
organization,
(United States Auto Club) that sanctioned the Indy 500 race.
A group of owners broke off from USAC and form CART, Championship Auto
Racing Teams. They ran the league from then on and this also included
spending all of the month of May at Indianapolis.
Well about 15 years ago,
the owner of the Indy track..whose name I shall not utter or type, decided
he didn't have
enough control over how the series was run. So about 5 or 6 years ago he
formed his own league, and used the most famous race at the most famous
track as a CLUB to entice owners to join his league.
This Spawn of the Devil effectively SPLIT American open wheel racing into
two
factions...both have different engine and chassis formulas and both have
different rules
about how the engines are modified. Irl uses normally aspirated engines
which the teams
own and therefore can modifiy them somewhat(within the rules) CART engines
are leased to the teams by the engine manufactuer's and supposedly, nobody
is supposed to even crack them open...just bolt them in...use'em and then
return them to a specified shop
for rebuilds.
IRL at this point is Oval ONLY.(IRL stands for Indy Racing League) They
have a court injunction preventing the CART teams from using the term INDY
so the CART cars are now called Championship Cars or Champ Cars.
So the IRL has about 10 little races and 1 HUGE race. CART now has 20+
races
that generally draw well but not as good as a Nascar event, and they have no
INDY
race to pad thier viewer and track attendance statistics. Although the
Devil's child did
relax his restrictive rules and allow the CART teams to enter, and at least
two teams will this year, but the gate and advertising money still goes to
the IRL side.
Which series is better? That was easy several years ago, The CART show
had the established stars, but the IRL is improving
it's show by using high drag/downforce configurations that often produce
close packs
of racers...although not at Homestead.
dave henrie

by **Jeff Vince** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 00:33:52

>>With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some
>>kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference is between
>>these two forms of motor racing.

>CART: turbo 2.65 liter engines, race on ovals, street, and road courses

* about 850-900 HP
* engines are higher tech and leased from manufacturers
* less downforce
* higher costs
* perceived by many as a higher level of racing (vs IRL)

* about 650 HP?
* rev-limiters and other technical limitations
* engines are bought and tweaked by the teams (or usually an outside
shop)
* more downforce (at many of the tracks you hear that the top
qualifiers are "flat" [full throttle] all the way around)
* lower costs

There is talk of CART going to a 3.5 liter normally aspirated
formula for 2003, but there will still probably be differences in the
engines (rev limiters, leasing, etc). Not to mention chassis
differences. But they seem to be getting closer to getting CART (or
at least its members) back to Indy...

PS - Be careful asking this question, it's the racing equivalent of
asking "what's the difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland?"
:|

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

by **Semi** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:19:46

so us ignorant Brits know the difference now between Cart and Indy, but this
one wants to know whats the difference between NASCAR and IROC?

by **ra300** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:20:04

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:19:46 +0100, "Semi"

>so us ignorant Brits know the difference now between Cart and Indy, but this
>one wants to know whats the difference between NASCAR and IROC?

NASCAR is the national "stock" car championship. Stock cars are
basically large V8 engines with a roll cage and a lot of sheet metal.
They pretend to be cars you can buy off the showroom floor. But they
are hardly stock.

IROC is a series that claims to be the "International Race of
Champions". The series is invitation only. Just because it claims to
be a series for champions doesn't mean you need to be one. They race
4 races a year and oval tracks only. The cars are built very much
like "stock" cars. Basically it's a series that caters to NASCAR
drivers. (too bad they don't have a road racing IROC...it would be
much more entertaining)

by **Dave Henri** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:31:43

IROC originally was a great idea. They got Euro and American drivers
together
on Road Courses AND Ovals. But nascar took it over many years ago and
it became an oval only spec series..
dave henrie

by **Robert** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:23:39

I believe IROC raed on a road course (Riverside?) in the early years (70's) ....but I'm not positive.

by **John Bod** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 03:08:55

<SNIP>

I concur -- the ideal IROC series would include short ovals
(Phoenix?), super speedways (Indy, Daytona, and Texas), road courses
(Road America or Spa), street courses (Long Beach? Monaco!), and even
a dirt track or two (Eldora and Knoxville?). It might even need 3
different types of cars for the different venues: Full-bodied stock
cars like it uses now for the short ovals; open-wheel Indy-style cars
(Indy Lights, CART, or IRL spec) for the speedways and road/street
courses; and an open wheel or modified type car for the dirt events.

THAT would be an "International Race Of Champions!"

;-)

-- JB

by **John Bod** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 03:17:49

>>>With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some
>>>kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference is between
>>>these two forms of motor racing.

>>CART: turbo 2.65 liter engines, race on ovals, street, and road courses

>* about 850-900 HP
>* engines are higher tech and leased from manufacturers
>* less downforce
>* higher costs
>* perceived by many as a higher level of racing (vs IRL)

>>IRL: normally aspirated 3.5 liter engines, oval tracks only

>* about 650 HP?
>* rev-limiters and other technical limitations
>* engines are bought and tweaked by the teams (or usually an outside
>shop)
>* more downforce (at many of the tracks you hear that the top
>qualifiers are "flat" [full throttle] all the way around)
>* lower costs

> There is talk of CART going to a 3.5 liter normally aspirated
>formula for 2003, but there will still probably be differences in the
>engines (rev limiters, leasing, etc). Not to mention chassis
>differences. But they seem to be getting closer to getting CART (or
>at least its members) back to Indy...

The chassis specs -- length, height, width, and weight -- are MUCH
closer than most people realize. IRL cars are optimized for ovals
only, and might not be very suitable for road courses, but I would
imagine that a CART chassis spec would work very well on the IRL's
ovals. Watch for some reunification -- or at least cooperation and
cross-promotion -- between both series in the near future.

;-)

-- JB

by **ra300** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 04:29:15

>I believe IROC raed on a road course (Riverside?) in the early years (70's) ....but I'm not positive.

Yes. IROC used to race on NASCAR. But as another poster mentions,
NASCAR took it over. AFAIK Darrell Waltrip won the last IROC road
racing event at Mid-Ohio in 1989 or 1990.

by **Jens H. Kruus** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:03:05

Paul,

Thanks for asking this question. I've been wondering about it myself for
some time but was afraid to ask. (Silly, I know).

Cheers,
Jens

P.S: And now I have to worry about Jan V., who has threatened to stalk me...

> With both Cart and Indy mods appearing for Nascar Heat, I wondered if some
> kind soul could explain to this ignorant Brit what the difference is between
> these two forms of motor racing.

> Thanks

> PJ

by **Jan Verschuere** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:15:13

Eh? Wha? -Oh yeah... I sort of remember. Thanks for reminding me! ;-)

Anyway, the main difference between CART and IRL is the organising body. The
IRL is a breakaway single seater oval series spawned from a disagreement
between the CART organisation and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway (The
Brickyard, host to the "Indy500") management. I'm sure there are technical
differences too as, because of the nature of the conflict, Champcars (cars
to CART specification) cannot be eligable to run in the Indy500.

Jan./one shouldn't take all of my comments literally. <g>
=---

by **Jeff Vince** » Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:36:07

The first year of IROC (1974) used Porsche Carrera RSRs at tracks
like Daytona (the road course) and Riverside. Drivers like Mark
Donohue, Emerson Fittipaldi, Denis Hulme, Richard Petty, A.J. Foyt,
Bobby Unser. Cool! :)

Look at www.irocracing.com ("History" link) for more info.

Shortly after there was a considerably dilution to a sort of
"NASCAR Lite" (mostly NASCAR drivers in NASCAR-like sedans on NASCAR
ovals).

The spec series was the core of the concept -- the cars are
provided and maintained by the series organizers and are supposedly
equal within 5 HP or so to each other. It was supposed to be a series
to determine the best driver from differing racing disciplines.
Somehow they mostly seem to be good ol' boys now. :)

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

by **Eldre** » Tue, 17 Apr 2001 03:49:40

>P.S: And now I have to worry about Jan V., who has threatened to stalk me...

The next GP race is may 6th...<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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rec.autos.simulators

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims

Cart and Indy Sims