rec.autos.simulators

Q: DSL

Scott B. Huste

Q: DSL

by Scott B. Huste » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

Question/observation about DSL connections.

First off, let me start by filling you in on my experience with Hell
Atlantic.  I originally ordered ISDN from Bell Atlantic because I was
planning on moving within a year and did not want to sign a long term
contract with a DSL provider in case where I moved did not offer the
service. (Same city, but different area).  Well, Bell Atlantic flubbed
up the line installation and I went 3 days without ANY phone service.
So I cancelled the ISDN.  In doing so, they tell me DSL is now available
through them with no contract.  640 down / 90 up service for $49.99 a
month.  So i sign up.  Well, the first 10 days were fantastic.  Not a
problem.  NO INSTALLATION.  All I had to do was install microfilters on
my phone jack and plug the line into the external Westell DSL modem and
into my nic card.  Worked great.  Well, after day 10 it went to hell.  I
ended up with no service for 14 out of the 29 days I had the service.  I
cancelled it on day 29 so I could get my $100 back for the modem.  So
whatever you do, READ DSL REPORTS AND BE FOREWARNED ABOUT BELL ATLANTIC.

So Im back at 56K.  But then we had a family situation arise in which I
will not be moving probably for another year or so at the earliest.  So
I called Fast.net since they offer DSL in my area using COVAD.  I had to
sign a 12 month contract, but for $69.99 I get 1.5Mps down and 384 up.
I am less than 1,400 feet from the central office.

OK, here is my question observation.  With BA, I had no installation.
Just the microfilters.  Now, with COVAD, Bell Atlantic came out
yesterday and ran a separate data line into the box out back. Tomorrow,
a technician is coming to run it from the pole/box out back into our box
down stairs.  Then on Saturday a COVAD technician comes in and installs
it onto my PC.  I did not realize there was that significant of a
difference in DSL technology offerings.  I would think this separate
data line would be superior method as the old method did give me some
modem noise on my telephone in the PC room, but not on our main phone
upstairs.  All were on the same line.  Im ASSuming COVAD is using a
splitter of some kind but using a separate data line which is to be used
for DSL only, not any phone service.

Are any of you out there more familiar with these processes,
installations, etc?

One thing I learned with my BA DSL, Im glad I kept my Earthlink account
active <VBG>  The one downside is Fast.net does not give me free dial up
service as BA offered with DSL.  Its only $9.99, but its not free ;)
You have to have a backup service available unless you can live without
ANY access from time to time.  Or if you go with Bell Atlantic, no DSL
service a MAJORITY of the time. <G>

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450

Scott B. Huste

Q: DSL

by Scott B. Huste » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

I forgot to mention Bell Atlantic uses WinPoet (PPPoE) and Fast.net offers a
Static IP.

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450

Matthew B.Knutse

Q: DSL

by Matthew B.Knutse » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

Heya Scott, I live a bit away from you, but heck:-)
The company I'm working in has started initial supply/testing of ADSL, and
from what I know so far, they are planning on using the same technology.
Your problems/the install routines you described are the same. The DSL just
runs on a higher frequency than your ordinairy Phone, so they *can use the
same copper pair, with a microfilter at the end.
I think the same problems that occur with ISDN will happen; end line quality
issues. Running a dedicated copper pair into your house is a good way of
fixing a part of that. From where I work I can run tests on the lines
remotely to check their condition, as copper is erm...you know, "corrosion
transformed"!

The last place I lived, I tapped into a friends ISDN from across the yard
(this was way out in the countryside!), ran a couple of cable drums out
through the snow, slush etc and up to my computer (with his agreement of
course; a neat though not quite legal soloution). These two drums were
bought from a bargain bin. The connection was absolutely brilliant! No
problems, always great stability etc.
Now, I've got ISDN at a location in the town centre, same PC setup, and I'm
practically on top of the nearest phone central/box, but my connection here
is much worse than it was in the middle of nowhere....

My conclusion is; ADSL is ok, but because of the ageing copper network, may
be unstable, and have frequent breakdowns. Fibre will be the way to
go.....but I'll go for ADSL/DSL when it's available ($). I'll just rip out
all the old phone lines/jacks from my house first, and do a fresh layup!
Phone jacks/phones on your in-house line before the microfilters will play
havoc with your DSL!

Matt

Doug Appleyar

Q: DSL

by Doug Appleyar » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

To share in DSL tales, I just got DSL service from BellSouth.
They sent me an external USB modem and I installed it myself.
They said they verified the lines, and indeed someone from
BellSouth was seen at my house checking the drop (didn't
come inside, and I wasn't there, so I never talked to them).

I live in 20 year old house and neighborhood
with (probably) copper lines.

My problems now are:  The supposedly "always-on"
connection disconnects after 10-15 minutes, even
when I'm not doing anything (computer is sitting there
idle, not even a screen saver).  And worse, of course,
is I can no longer race N3 on-line.  I can join races with
pings of 45, and latency of 0.03, but when the host
proceeds to the qualifying, or to the race, I get "bad
connection, losing connection" and then I am
disconnected.  This is at peak periods (10-12 pm eastern)
but that's the only time I can do it.  This is often
to what I *think* are good N3 servers (brick onecall.net for
example).

So what should I suspect first?  Could it be the modem,
or the fact is it connected through a $40 USB hub along
with my pedals and joystick?  Or perhaps my house
wiring (I replaced the jack and the cord to the modem,
with no avail.  Next is the under-house wiring).  Or I have
heard the end-office ADSL connections are often jury-rigged.
Or is it my neighborhood lines?  I do have filters on
other phones in the house.  No filter on the line going
to the computer, and no filter on the 2nd line phone - but
I'll stick one on there too, can't hurt.

Is there a web site where I can measure the quality
of my connection, not just the speed (or should I just
use ping)?

I have Win98, P3 550, 128M RAM, 80% system resources
free before connecting to internet.  I ran the broadband
tweaks from speedguide.net.

thanks

By the way, apologies to those involved in the N3 race
last night where my DSL disconnected me when we were
on the starting grid.  I could not get reconnected so
I assume my car was left there.  Argh.

--
Doug Appleyard
"Got us a Dirt Track Date, demolition derby figure 8"

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Dave Henri

Q: DSL

by Dave Henri » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

  Here's an N3 tip I got from Al Stiff who got if from another group.
In N3 hit the alt-y key.  that should report your quality of connection.
try and do this BEFORE the race :)
you can do this either in car or by turning on the chat box at the track
menu.
if the quality is low..under 40..press alt-e(no dash) to turn off the
new extrapolation.  then press alt-y again and again until you get
BETTER quality #'s.  once you get a decent number...press alt-e to turn
the new extrapolation back on.  
  it's not a perfect method, but it has kept me in some races where the
connection started to go south.
dave henrie

> To share in DSL tales, I just got DSL service from BellSouth.
> They sent me an external USB modem and I installed it myself.
> They said they verified the lines, and indeed someone from
> BellSouth was seen at my house checking the drop (didn't
> come inside, and I wasn't there, so I never talked to them).

> I live in 20 year old house and neighborhood
> with (probably) copper lines.

> My problems now are:  The supposedly "always-on"
> connection disconnects after 10-15 minutes, even
> when I'm not doing anything (computer is sitting there
> idle, not even a screen saver).  And worse, of course,
> is I can no longer race N3 on-line.  I can join races with
> pings of 45, and latency of 0.03, but when the host
> proceeds to the qualifying, or to the race, I get "bad
> connection, losing connection" and then I am
> disconnected.  This is at peak periods (10-12 pm eastern)
> but that's the only time I can do it.  This is often
> to what I *think* are good N3 servers (brick onecall.net for
> example).

> So what should I suspect first?  Could it be the modem,
> or the fact is it connected through a $40 USB hub along
> with my pedals and joystick?  Or perhaps my house
> wiring (I replaced the jack and the cord to the modem,
> with no avail.  Next is the under-house wiring).  Or I have
> heard the end-office ADSL connections are often jury-rigged.
> Or is it my neighborhood lines?  I do have filters on
> other phones in the house.  No filter on the line going
> to the computer, and no filter on the 2nd line phone - but
> I'll stick one on there too, can't hurt.

> Is there a web site where I can measure the quality
> of my connection, not just the speed (or should I just
> use ping)?

> I have Win98, P3 550, 128M RAM, 80% system resources
> free before connecting to internet.  I ran the broadband
> tweaks from speedguide.net.

> thanks

> By the way, apologies to those involved in the N3 race
> last night where my DSL disconnected me when we were
> on the starting grid.  I could not get reconnected so
> I assume my car was left there.  Argh.

> --
> Doug Appleyard
> "Got us a Dirt Track Date, demolition derby figure 8"

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

Doug Appleyar

Q: DSL

by Doug Appleyar » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00



Thanks, I have tried it before but I will try it
again.  I have a couple questions though:

1. What happens after you turn extrapolation
   back on then do ctrl-y?  Do you still see
   your quality going up and down, or does it
   stay near the value you "locked in"?

2. Do you have to do this each time for Practice,
   Qualify, Warmup, Race, or do you just do it once
   when you initially connect to the server?  Does
   it survive consecutive races on the same server?

Thanks

--
Doug Appleyard
"Got us a Dirt Track Date - demolition derby figure 8"

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Dave Henri

Q: DSL

by Dave Henri » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

  According to the folks who passed it on to me...turning the
extrapolation back on is "supposed" to lock it in.  I'm not sure that is
true tho.
  I have usually tried to enable it just before practice ends or at the
end of the qualifying session.  Not too many people run a warmup so
it's tough to get it ready..and sitting at the line hitting alt-y over
and over is an easy way to smoked at the start.. <VBG>
dave henrie



> >   Here's an N3 tip I got from Al Stiff who got if from another group.
> > In N3 hit the alt-y key.  that should report your quality of
> connection.
> > try and do this BEFORE the race :)
> > you can do this either in car or by turning on the chat box at the
> track
> > menu.
> > if the quality is low..under 40..press alt-e(no dash) to turn off the
> > new extrapolation.  then press alt-y again and again until you get
> > BETTER quality #'s.  once you get a decent number...press alt-e to
> turn
> > the new extrapolation back on.
> >   it's not a perfect method, but it has kept me in some races where
> the
> > connection started to go south.
> > dave henrie

> Thanks, I have tried it before but I will try it
> again.  I have a couple questions though:

> 1. What happens after you turn extrapolation
>    back on then do ctrl-y?  Do you still see
>    your quality going up and down, or does it
>    stay near the value you "locked in"?

> 2. Do you have to do this each time for Practice,
>    Qualify, Warmup, Race, or do you just do it once
>    when you initially connect to the server?  Does
>    it survive consecutive races on the same server?

> Thanks

> --
> Doug Appleyard
> "Got us a Dirt Track Date - demolition derby figure 8"

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

Coli

Q: DSL

by Coli » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

Get on the phone to BellSouth.
Such frequent disconnection is completely unacceptable.
The server only drops me around once or twice a month.
To check your speed go to www.dslreports.com
Check out the speed tweaks section if you haven't already.
Changing the DefaultRcvWindow registry setting made my speed go from 470K to
1.46M instantly.

I would try connecting the USB modem directly to your PC without going
through the hub.  That'll at least show you if that's the problem or not.

...Colin

Brett C. Camma

Q: DSL

by Brett C. Camma » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

Scott,

Check out www.telocity.com

I just started with their DSL service last week.  I love it.
$49.94/mo and if you stay on for 12 months they waive the equipment
fee.  No installers, just a DSL modem and microfilters.  I get 1.5mb
down and 384 kb up.  Modem supports ethernet, USB, or parallel port
interface and is a smart cookie.  I also got a static IP address (and
ZoneAlarm almost immediately thereafter).

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL

Scott B. Huste

Q: DSL

by Scott B. Huste » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00

ZoneAlarm has been on my PC since the day I had Bell Atlantic ;)    A little
late to check out telocity since I already signed the contract with
Fast.net, but the reviews I read at DSLreports gives Fast.net good marks
except for the Bell Atlantic line installation where most of the problems
were with Bell Atlantic not showing up for appointments.  ROFLMAO - Imagine
that ;)

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ #4395450

Editor in Chief
PowerSims.com


Greg Cisk

Q: DSL

by Greg Cisk » Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:00



Last fall I ordered DLS via one of Covad's ISP connections just like
you. They came out and the technician totally butchered the wall
jack (he used double stick tape on the RJ45 box to stick it to my
wall). Ameritech had a actual bulkhead with RJ11 connectors which
I thought this guy would replace. Not... Then the modem would not
sync up to the main office and the Covad dude was totally clueless.

Then I had lunch with a friend that was using DSL via www.telocity.com.
He says it is fantastic so I ordered the service. Ameritech was out
stringing a separate category 5 cable (basically the best) just like
you had done. Telocity is supposed to contact me in the next few
days to finalize to hookup. The cool part is the DLS bridge. It can
be a normal Network card type connection like you have, or via
the serial ports, parallel ports and the *BEST* USB! My friend
was using the USB connection and was getting 400K up and
down. I am 13,000 from my switch and expect to get atleast
256K up and down (yes this is ADSL). All for $49.99 a month.

This time I hope it works out. I am mainly getting it for online
racing (Nascar3). When I get it done, check the races on
won.net I will be listed as "hammer-time" and the latency
problems shouldn't be on my end :-)

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Scott B. Huste

Q: DSL

by Scott B. Huste » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

Greg,

Keep in touch and hopefully after Saturday we can get together and see what
kind of connections we have <G>  I have heard good things about Telocity
too, but I didn't see them as offering service in my area.

Fast.net is listed on DSLReports.com and the reviews are good.  It seems
like all the problems are with Bell Atlantic showing up for installation on
their scheduled time.  I am off work tomorrow and will be home 1/2 the day
and I have my wife coming home for the second 1/2 of the day so someone is
here the whole day.  I plan on having Fast.nets phone number on speed dial
so we can check in regularly and have them call COVAD and then Bell Atlantic
to make sure they show up tomorrow.  When I take off work for this kind of
crap.. they better show up or frustrated postal workers are going to look
like Barney compared to me <VBG>

Funny part is my Sister works for Bell Atlantic and at their meeting a month
ago the management told them not to push DSL because they cannot keep up
with the installations and they don't have a solid grasp on the technology

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ #4395450

Editor in Chief
PowerSims.com



> > Are any of you out there more familiar with these processes,
> > installations, etc?

> Last fall I ordered DLS via one of Covad's ISP connections just like
> you. They came out and the technician totally butchered the wall
> jack (he used double stick tape on the RJ45 box to stick it to my
> wall). Ameritech had a actual bulkhead with RJ11 connectors which
> I thought this guy would replace. Not... Then the modem would not
> sync up to the main office and the Covad dude was totally clueless.

> Then I had lunch with a friend that was using DSL via www.telocity.com.
> He says it is fantastic so I ordered the service. Ameritech was out
> stringing a separate category 5 cable (basically the best) just like
> you had done. Telocity is supposed to contact me in the next few
> days to finalize to hookup. The cool part is the DLS bridge. It can
> be a normal Network card type connection like you have, or via
> the serial ports, parallel ports and the *BEST* USB! My friend
> was using the USB connection and was getting 400K up and
> down. I am 13,000 from my switch and expect to get atleast
> 256K up and down (yes this is ADSL). All for $49.99 a month.

> This time I hope it works out. I am mainly getting it for online
> racing (Nascar3). When I get it done, check the races on
> won.net I will be listed as "hammer-time" and the latency
> problems shouldn't be on my end :-)

> --

> Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

> cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Greg Cisk

Q: DSL

by Greg Cisk » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00



> Funny part is my Sister works for Bell Atlantic and at their meeting a
month
> ago the management told them not to push DSL because they cannot keep up
> with the installations and they don't have a solid grasp on the technology


The funny part of my story is that the dude that did the first attempted
install for Covad (in the chicago area) told me he was hired for his
installation expertise. I guess he knew how to use double stick tape :-)

And... He used to work for Southern Bell :-)

Wow.

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Alex Kihuran

Q: DSL

by Alex Kihuran » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

Cool. Thanks for telling ras that. We've been struggleing to find DSL and
the best we could find here is 200k a sec for $60 a month and it wont be
here for almost another year! Well thank you very very much.

Thanks,
Alex



> > Are any of you out there more familiar with these processes,
> > installations, etc?

> Last fall I ordered DLS via one of Covad's ISP connections just like
> you. They came out and the technician totally butchered the wall
> jack (he used double stick tape on the RJ45 box to stick it to my
> wall). Ameritech had a actual bulkhead with RJ11 connectors which
> I thought this guy would replace. Not... Then the modem would not
> sync up to the main office and the Covad dude was totally clueless.

> Then I had lunch with a friend that was using DSL via www.telocity.com.
> He says it is fantastic so I ordered the service. Ameritech was out
> stringing a separate category 5 cable (basically the best) just like
> you had done. Telocity is supposed to contact me in the next few
> days to finalize to hookup. The cool part is the DLS bridge. It can
> be a normal Network card type connection like you have, or via
> the serial ports, parallel ports and the *BEST* USB! My friend
> was using the USB connection and was getting 400K up and
> down. I am 13,000 from my switch and expect to get atleast
> 256K up and down (yes this is ADSL). All for $49.99 a month.

> This time I hope it works out. I am mainly getting it for online
> racing (Nascar3). When I get it done, check the races on
> won.net I will be listed as "hammer-time" and the latency
> problems shouldn't be on my end :-)

> --

> Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

> cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Scott B. Huste

Q: DSL

by Scott B. Huste » Thu, 04 May 2000 04:00:00

Update.

Do you guess want to guess whether or not the fricken morons at Bell
Atlantic showed up for their appointment today?

3 guesses and the first 2 dont count <VBG>

I feel sorry for the ISP and COVAD.  It makes them look bad when its not
their fault.  They can't control how screwed up Bell Atlantic is.

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ #4395450

Editor in Chief
PowerSims.com



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