rec.autos.simulators

by **Andi Col** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:07:08

No, my SuperMicro P4SAA runs DDR but it is dual channel so if you have two
sticks (which must be the same) you'll get speeds in excess of RAMBUS 1066 -
or so I'm told.

I'm still in the process of building my new PC but so far it's looking damn
fast. Still need a GF FX though to make it really quick. 3DMark2001 SE 13771
with no tweaks, everything as it came out of the box except for the nVidia
41.09 drivers for the 4600 card.

It is really difficult these days to choose which way to go, I use a samll
company in Scotland for advice and get my bits from them. I could get
cheaper prices if I went to all sorts of different places and spemt hours
searching. This way if anything is wrong it's just a phone call.
(www.amazoninternational.com - nothing to do with 'the' Amazon)

Cheers.

Andi.

> > I'd take a quick look at the new Intel 7205 Mobos. They're supposed to
be
> > Intels first attempt at a gamer friendly motherboard.

> > Andi.

> Are those just for RDRAM? I want to stick with DDR for now.

> MadDAWG

by **Andi Col** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:10:07

Hmm, interseting, I'll have to turn mine off and see what happens.

Andi.

> > I'm also considering an upgrade to P4 and I think you should make sure
> > your new mobo supports the new "Hyper Threading" P4's.

> > --
> > Jone Tytlandsvik
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> At this time I would AVOID any item that is related to Hyperthreading.
> So far, from what I've read, Intel has found a way to slow down a very
fast
> chip. The HT is supposed to mimic two chips..but what it mimics are two
> chips with only half the onboard cache and half the pipelines available to
> either. You can turn OFF the HT but the XP system will still load a crap-
> load of extra files needed to support HT. Apparently only a full wiping
> and re-install will remove all those extra files. HT 'MAY' someday become
> a good idea, but right now, ESPECIALLY FOR *** it is a bad bad idea.
> The only reason to look for support of HT in a Motherboard would be to
> ensure some future upgradeability, but the performance cost of the actual
> product is too great to be of ANY advantage.

> dave henrie

by **Jone Tytlandsvi** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:30:40

How do you turn off the HT? In BIOS or can you choose when you install XP?
Will a XP/XP dualboot make it possible to have one with HT on and one with
HT off?

Jone.

by **Andi Col** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:47:49

You can turn HT off in the BIOS and I've just tried it, it appears to make
no difference at all.

PC is a

P4 3.06
Supermicro P4SAA
1GB PC2700 DDR
GF 4 4600 41.09 drivers
Win XP Pro

With HT enabled I get 13771 in 3DMark2001 SE and 13776 with HT disabled.

I suspect you need HT code to make any real difference. In the mean time I
can see no reason to change the defauilt state.

Andi.

> > either. You can turn OFF the HT but the XP system will still load a
crap-
> > load of extra files needed to support HT. Apparently only a full wiping
> > and re-install will remove all those extra files.

> How do you turn off the HT? In BIOS or can you choose when you install XP?
> Will a XP/XP dualboot make it possible to have one with HT on and one with
> HT off?

> Jone.

by **Andi Col** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:48:37

Just tried it and it makes no difference, 13771 with HT and 13776 without in
3DMark2001 SE.

Andi.

> No, my SuperMicro P4SAA runs DDR but it is dual channel so if you have two
> sticks (which must be the same) you'll get speeds in excess of RAMBUS
1066 -
> or so I'm told.

> I'm still in the process of building my new PC but so far it's looking
damn
> fast. Still need a GF FX though to make it really quick. 3DMark2001 SE
13771
> with no tweaks, everything as it came out of the box except for the nVidia
> 41.09 drivers for the 4600 card.

> It is really difficult these days to choose which way to go, I use a samll
> company in Scotland for advice and get my bits from them. I could get
> cheaper prices if I went to all sorts of different places and spemt hours
> searching. This way if anything is wrong it's just a phone call.
> (www.amazoninternational.com - nothing to do with 'the' Amazon)

> Cheers.

> Andi.

> > > I'd take a quick look at the new Intel 7205 Mobos. They're supposed to
> be
> > > Intels first attempt at a gamer friendly motherboard.

> > > Andi.

> > Are those just for RDRAM? I want to stick with DDR for now.

> > MadDAWG

by **MadDAW** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:04:43

According to Dave's post just turning it off in the BIOS would not give you
any difference. XP is still loading the dual CPU files so even with it off
you would be suffering from the overhead at this point with it enabled or
disabled. Of course that is if I understand Dave's post 100% However I
thought the Papy games could take advantage of dual CPUs.

MadDAWG

by **Joachim Trens** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:00:41

Hi Andy,

according to Dave you'd need to reinstall XP to really disable HT.

However, as for the speed advantages, I've read a few articles about this
feature and the benchmarks in these showed a fairly clear picture.

In these benchmarks HT on average speed up applications by about 10% - 15%
if the application executes tasks which can be parallelised. If not, HT made
the applications slower by about 5% - 10%. Exceptions existed as well, where
applications were accelerated by more than these 15%.

A personaly consideration I made was the following - if an application
cannot parallelise its tasks but you usually have other applications /
processes running in the background, like when flying IL2 online while using
Roger Wilco for the Radio comms, with the drivers for the Ethernet card that
you ADSL modem is connected to and maybe a system service running as well,
that makes it IMHO a perfect multitasking environment where HT should give
your system speed a boost. Unfortunately, such an environment was not tested
in the articles I read.

I am not sure in how far N2002 or N2003 parallelise their internal
processes, as sound / graphics and physics would seem to be interdependent
(can't play tire squeal before you know it's going to squeal, and can't draw
image before you know the future attitude of the car), but Papy said N2002
profits from Dual Processors, so I assume there will be an advantage for HT
in Papys new sims.

Let me add that I personally use an Athlon XP 2800 <g> so I'm not saying
this as an Intel fanboy (it's so easy to get that fanboy stamp whacked on
the forehead these days in this NG <g>). I was considering getting a P4 3.06
but decided against it as I found it's just not worth the money. But I do
think it's proven that HT can make things faster, and I think online ***
is an environment where that would happen.

Achim

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 23:25:10

that's because 3dmark is a benchmark focused on your videocard. A cpu
instensive benchmark might display different results. You could try and
simulate the HT by running several background programs while 3dmark is
testing. I don't know if that will show any differences, but it might.
Certainly the 3.06 is a fast fast chip. But the promises of Hyperthreading
itself seem overblown at this point.
dave henrie

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 23:29:58

Yeah I'm never the clearest at explanations am I? :) Unfortunately I
don't have any first hand experience with Hyperthreading, All I'm going by
are a couple of print magazines that tested the new chip. This goes back
kinda to my feelings of 'When is an upgrade NOT an upgrade.'
While Hyperthreading MAY SOMEDAY be a performance boon, at best it
makes for a modest gain, and at worst is a resource hog that lowers overall
system performance. Benchmarking the Papy sims might be a great project
for some enterprising P4 3.06/Xp owner. :)
dave henrie

by **nathan** » Sun, 26 Jan 2003 00:47:01

> "Sparkle" - what a yummiliciously eponymous name for a power supply.
> "Sparkle" was a verb used in the Nam in conjunction with high-rpm,
> crew-served weapons. It meant to blow something to smithereens.

Hahaha. I sure hope it doesn't blow my system to smithereens since I
just bought a Sparkle power supply. ;-)

by **MadDAW** » Sun, 26 Jan 2003 00:53:36

Mine has been running great for almost a year now. Its also a lot cooler
than my old 300 as well.

MadDAWG

by **Some Call Me Ti** » Sun, 26 Jan 2003 05:26:33

HT will only be of benefit in apps which are programmed to use smp (symetric
multi prcoessing) almost all games don't. The Quake 2/3 engine games will
with some minor fidling although even those are not always sucessfull. Most
benchmarking programs don't allow for smp so you probably won't notice a
difference there either. When it does work it kicks ass mind you an of
course it's brilliant for servers.

Some Call Me Tim

by **Ric Seyle** » Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:20:03

Dunno John......... Ask others about my experiences with Abit boards :-)
There's a long running joke about all the stuff I had to deal with concerning
The Abit board I had and Nascar 4 & 2002. I think it was a BE6II.

> > Its upgrade time again.

> > I'm thinking of going to a P4 setup with the 533 CPU bus and reusing my
> 266
> > DDR ram. I have been running AMD since N3, but I thought it was time to
> give
> > the other side a try.

> > I was just looking at Newegg and I can get an Abit P4 board with the 845
> > chipset which supports the 533 front side bus and upto 333 DDR ram , and a
> > retail 2.4 gig CPU for around $305. I'd be reusing the rest of my stuff
> > which includes 512 meg of 266 DDR ram, my GF3 video card, and Santa Cruz
> > sound card. A bubby of mine but together a similar system, but using a
> SIS
> > chipset board (Soyo Dragon IIRC) and a GF2 Ultra and smoked my AMD XP1800,
> > ASUS A7M266 mobo, and GF3 in NR2002.

> > So what is the hot ticket these days in the P4 motherboard world? Is
> there
> > any known issues with any of my other hardware?

> > MadDAWG

> Abit's are good boards, shouldn't have any problems, same with your older
> hardware with it. In terms of power supply, I'd go for a 400 watt. More
> power is always good :)

> John

--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

by **Goy Larse** » Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:24:29

> Dunno John......... Ask others about my experiences with Abit boards :-)
> There's a long running joke about all the stuff I had to deal with concerning
> The Abit board I had and Nascar 4 & 2002. I think it was a BE6II.

There's a long running joke about you and computers....period

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Ric Seyle** » Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:25:17

The hot ticket is the ASUS P4T533. No doubt about it.

1066 32bit Rambus ram. Running Win98se and a Ti4400.

The P4T533-C board uses 16 bit Rambus Ram not 32bit.

And so far so good! I've had a screwy random lockup w/N2K2
but I think I tracked it down to Norton 2003 Pro. I have to manually
kill it in CTRL-ALT-DEL. Just turning it off didn't work.

> Its upgrade time again.

> I'm thinking of going to a P4 setup with the 533 CPU bus and reusing my 266
> DDR ram. I have been running AMD since N3, but I thought it was time to give
> the other side a try.

> I was just looking at Newegg and I can get an Abit P4 board with the 845
> chipset which supports the 533 front side bus and upto 333 DDR ram , and a
> retail 2.4 gig CPU for around $305. I'd be reusing the rest of my stuff
> which includes 512 meg of 266 DDR ram, my GF3 video card, and Santa Cruz
> sound card. A bubby of mine but together a similar system, but using a SIS
> chipset board (Soyo Dragon IIRC) and a GF2 Ultra and smoked my AMD XP1800,
> ASUS A7M266 mobo, and GF3 in NR2002.

> So what is the hot ticket these days in the P4 motherboard world? Is there
> any known issues with any of my other hardware?

> MadDAWG

--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

rec.autos.simulators

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets

OT- Intel P4 motherboard chipsets