Nige.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
If you're a longtime racer within GPL (without using FF) you have already
adapted yourself to not feeling any forces and are anticipating on what you
see and hear only. Those guys (women) find it hard to suddenly switch over to
FF and are complaining about the fact they are slower with FF. I think it's
only a matter of time they also have that good (maybe even
better) anticipation with FF and do indeed improve their laptimes.
On the other hand if you're rather novice (w.r.t. GPL) you're less biased
towards non-FF racing and you immediately benefit from the FF-effects modelled
in GPL. I consider myself as being a novice racer and did improve my laptimes
(it's not revolutionary but nevertheless...).
But.....the most improtant fact: Once you've driven with FF you really don't
like the absence of force (when reverting to 1.0) anymore. It simply makes it
feel so much more realistic (though i must admit I've never driven race cars
in real life so what am I talking about :)).
The above of course IMO.
Jan.
> Nige.
> If you're a longtime racer within GPL (without using FF) you have already
> adapted yourself to not feeling any forces and are anticipating on what you
> see and hear only. Those guys (women) find it hard to suddenly switch over to
> FF and are complaining about the fact they are slower with FF. I think it's
> only a matter of time they also have that good (maybe even
> better) anticipation with FF and do indeed improve their laptimes.
> On the other hand if you're rather novice (w.r.t. GPL) you're less biased
> towards non-FF racing and you immediately benefit from the FF-effects modelled
> in GPL. I consider myself as being a novice racer and did improve my laptimes
> (it's not revolutionary but nevertheless...).
The biggest improvement with FF as I see it, is that you car race much more
concistently. It is much easier to save the car if you***up in a corner,
so a mistake doesn't cost you 15 seconds and a Shift-R.
The problem right now is the slo-mo effect, so laptimes aren't really worth
anything.
Going back to 1.0 <Shudder>
Well, I do like SCGT better w/o FF because with FF the framerate hit is too
bad.
--
Olav K. Malmin
remove spam when replying
> > It depends,
> > If you're a longtime racer within GPL (without using FF) you have already
> > adapted yourself to not feeling any forces and are anticipating on what you
> > see and hear only. Those guys (women) find it hard to suddenly switch over to
> > FF and are complaining about the fact they are slower with FF. I think it's
> > only a matter of time they also have that good (maybe even
> > better) anticipation with FF and do indeed improve their laptimes.
> > On the other hand if you're rather novice (w.r.t. GPL) you're less biased
> > towards non-FF racing and you immediately benefit from the FF-effects modelled
> > in GPL. I consider myself as being a novice racer and did improve my laptimes
> > (it's not revolutionary but nevertheless...).
> Good point, I did not improve at Monza, 1.30.xx PB (yeah, I DO struggle to get
> that sub 1.30 lap in the eagle), and I didn't improve much there. But at Spa
> I bettered my time with 5-10 seconds.
> The biggest improvement with FF as I see it, is that you car race much more
> concistently. It is much easier to save the car if you***up in a corner,
> so a mistake doesn't cost you 15 seconds and a Shift-R.
I only have a cheapo FF wheel, and I couldn't really tell whether the
force-feedback was true-to-life or not, but it certainly gave me more
feedback which I could use to work out what was going on. It wasn't a
conscious process, but I find I just kind of learn what "feels right" at
each point on the track, and with FF there are more cues to get hold of.
Trouble is the wheel was so notchy I got fed up with it and went back to
the TSW, which feels beautifully smooth.
Perhaps I'll get a Logitech Wheel - anyone know where I can get one in
the UK?
Even if I would be slower with FF I'd still use it, it just feels
great!
Andre
FF really really helps with communicating to you just what the car is
doing, you feel the suspension load up, and the tire starting to lose grip,
at which point you can ease up on the throttle and prevent loss of
control direction on the tire, with FF you can control the car to correct
problems as they start instead of, without FF sawing at the wheel wildly to
fight what the car is doing without as much of an idea of why the car is
behaving the way it is.
Also when the tires do lose control of direction (i.e. spins), if you ease
up on the throttle, the "Force" of the wheel will turn the wheel to the
position where the tire grip direction points, as the tire regains grip,
this is hard to explain but really helps in saving the car on those times
when you do spin, it is similar to when your tires lose traction in a real
car, if you don't have power-steering the tires will point your steering
in the direction that they need when they regain grip.
One very good example for me where I think the "Force" has really improved
my feel is in the Monaco chicane after the tunnel, I raced there in a 30 lap
League race recently and didn't spin in the chicane once, this was due to
the "Force" letting me know just how close the tires were to losing grip,
where before FF I normally had a 80% chance of making it cleanly through
that crazy chicane.
Yes indeed I love the Force Feedback in GPL 1.1 Papyrus has done an amazing
job with the FF despite the other small quirks 1.1 introduced.
Finally, indeed yes I am getting faster with FF, but this is due to
understanding more what the car is doing and *controlling* it's motion
as it starts to step out of line, and spending less time *fighting* the
car motion with the wheel as I did pre FF.
Call me a Papy FF religious fanatic :-)
Seeyas on the track.
--John (Joao) Silva
>Nige.
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
<snip>
I don't have a FF wheel because I'm still figuring out which one to buy.
My question about GPL FF: I've read in numerous posts that you can feel the
weight of the car, i.e. steering becomes lighter when the front wheels lose
grip.
O.K. so much about understeering. But how does oversteering feel ? I've
driven a little bit go-kart (just for fun) and I noticed, that if you get
oversteer at corner entry, the wheel almost forces you to opposite lock.You
don't have much to do to catch the kart, it does it almost itself. It is
quite understandable for me why this happens: Because the weight is on the
front, the front tires will stick to their direction and the rear comes out,
so you will have a force on the wheel in direction of opposite lock. Is that
the effect that you mean? Is that even noticeable in a *real* race car? If
so, is it modeled in GPL?
Thanx
Peter
Vienna, Austria
Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================
I've driven go-karts too and it does feel very similar (with the
exception of no lower back pain from the G forces in the corners :-)
It really is pretty amazing how it works, my hat is off to Randy and
Papy for having pulled it off so well.
Note: this is with a LWFF wheel with the settings tweaked so that they
concentrate on "feeling" detail through the wheel and not building
arm muscles by fighting the wheel the whole way around the track.
--John
>I don't have a FF wheel because I'm still figuring out which one to buy.
>My question about GPL FF: I've read in numerous posts that you can feel the
>weight of the car, i.e. steering becomes lighter when the front wheels lose
>grip.
>O.K. so much about understeering. But how does oversteering feel ? I've
>driven a little bit go-kart (just for fun) and I noticed, that if you get
>oversteer at corner entry, the wheel almost forces you to opposite lock.You
>don't have much to do to catch the kart, it does it almost itself. It is
>quite understandable for me why this happens: Because the weight is on the
>front, the front tires will stick to their direction and the rear comes out,
>so you will have a force on the wheel in direction of opposite lock. Is that
>the effect that you mean? Is that even noticeable in a *real* race car? If
>so, is it modeled in GPL?
>Thanx
>Peter
>Vienna, Austria
Jan.
------
I guess that is a form of consistency...
Kevin Caldwell
Calgary, Canada
LWFF, CH pedals, lots of different FF set-ups...
> Jan.
> ------
> >Just curious if people are driving faster and improving their lap times
Kevin Caldwell wrote
>I guess that is a form of consistency...
>LWFF, CH pedals, lots of different FF set-ups...
Also, certain car setups don't seem to work well with FF.
In particular, too much front toe-out can lead to FF
oscillations on the straights. A more stable setup
is easier to drive straight with FF than without it,
as the steering realistically gets heavier with speed.
--
spamgard(tm): To email me, put "geek" in your Subject line.
For me, FF just slows me down and makes me fall off the track. It's not like
no FF is over-boosted power steering, and FF is rack and pinion. I don't
find the feedback useful.
Kevin Caldwell
Yes, you can be faster with the Force - the ACT Labs Force RS!
--
Pat Dotson
>For me, FF just slows me down and makes me fall off the track. It's not
like
>no FF is over-boosted power steering, and FF is rack and pinion. I don't
>find the feedback useful.
>Kevin Caldwell
>> Reduce the amount of force. A lot. My first day with a
>> LWFF I used a setup with too much force for me, and kept
>> spinning. I made the force a lot more subtle until I got
>> used to it, and then gradually ramped it back up.
>> Also, certain car setups don't seem to work well with FF.
>> In particular, too much front toe-out can lead to FF
>> oscillations on the straights. A more stable setup
>> is easier to drive straight with FF than without it,
>> as the steering realistically gets heavier with speed.
