rec.autos.simulators

GPL different cars same chassis setup??

Stephen Smit

GPL different cars same chassis setup??

by Stephen Smit » Wed, 18 Jul 2001 06:45:37

Calis,

Yes the tire widths (and relative front-to-rear widths) are also fully
modeled--I just didn't see the need to beat my own argument to death with
more facts than I'd already marshalled.  But thanx for noticing.

--Steve




> >I do wonder just how different the cars really are - they're all
> >around the same weight and dimensions in absolute terms, and are
> >possibly on the same tyres so you'd expect /similar/ numbers to work
> >okay.  Does anyone know whether roll centres and camber curves vary
> >between cars?

> There is a table giving the weight distribution on
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> I have seen a table giving different front and rear width, which
> differs a bit, too. (some cars are smaller at the front, some aren't,
iirc)

>    Calis

Dave Henri

GPL different cars same chassis setup??

by Dave Henri » Wed, 18 Jul 2001 06:55:25

  We might be having a mis-communication here.  i have used specific setups
and ones for other marques...Some feel good to me and others don't.  I don't
have the proficiency in GPL to get the maximum from a setup so swapping
marques isn't that big a deal.
  I believe your assesments are correct about the differences between the
brands, but if you don't have to talent to exploit the differences...such as
myself, then not using brand-specific setups isn't such a taboo.
dave henrie

> Have you driven a BRM and a Lotus in the same session?  Day?  Month?  The
> former has no torque, and has to be rowed around with the gearbox (thank
God
> it's got an extra gear), and the latter has so much torque it doesn't
matter
> what gear yer in.

> Which is not to say a bad setup won't work for a good driver...or v.v., or
> any other combo.

> --Steve





> > > Since Papy went to the trouble to model different engine curves,
> > different
> > > wheelbases, different tracks, different weights, different c.g.s,
> > different
> > > aero, etc., for each car in the game, I'm amazed anybody but a rank
> > amateur
> > > (or somebody with a remarkably dead butt) would think one setup
> > would work
> > > for more than one car.  Then again, I know some churls who don't
> > even bother
> > > to change the setup (except top gear) from track to track!

> > Fully agreed in principle, except that I've found much the same thing:
> > once I've developed a setup which seems to work well for (say) the
> > Coventry, I can transfer it to another car (perhaps the Ferrari or the
> > Eagle) and it'll be somewhere near.  It certainly doesn't result in
> > the second car handling identically, but I can usually 'sort it' with
> > a no more than a couple of clicks on any one tweak.

> > I do wonder just how different the cars really are - they're all
> > around the same weight and dimensions in absolute terms, and are
> > possibly on the same tyres so you'd expect /similar/ numbers to work
> > okay.  Does anyone know whether roll centres and camber curves vary
> > between cars?

> > I import original gearing back to the new car, though - no way I can
> > see the same ratios working across engines!

> > Jonny

Jonny Hodgso

GPL different cars same chassis setup??

by Jonny Hodgso » Wed, 18 Jul 2001 06:55:11


As I said: gear ratios /don't/ transfer!

I don't claim to be an expert, but I do enjoy developing setups and I
seemed to be arriving at similar settings for different cars - it was
a logical extension to try transferring entire setups, and I haven't
yet found it to produce horrible results <shrug>

Admittedly, too, I don't have the time to drive all the cars - I'm
primarily hunting GPLRank right now, so "this season Oi 'ave bin
mostly" using the Cooper to re-learn circuits, followed by the Eagle
or Ferrari to try to find some more pace.

Sure.  I rate myself as a mediocre driver (not /bad/, just not great
either) but pretty good with setups.  I've also developed some fairly
specific preferences for handling (through model car racing) - mostly
to do with having large amounts of power-on steering :-)

Jonny

Stephen Smit

GPL different cars same chassis setup??

by Stephen Smit » Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:02:43

Sorry, JP; I didn't respond to:

As far as I know, the suspension geometry itself is kinda "idealized;" that
is, generic.  This is informed speculation on my part; I have no specific
knowledge.  But, for sure, there are wide variations between the engine &
torque curves (hence, mid-range acceleration), the weights (the BRM weighs a
TON...and feels every ounce of it), the wheelbases (the main reason why the
long-w.b.Cooper is so sweet-handling), the tire sizes & contact patches, the
aero (which affects top-gear acceleration as well as Vmax), even the
physical size of the cars (the tiny, F2-based Brabham is easier to shepherd
around the confines of Monaco than, say, the Brobdinagian BRM).

--Steve

Ale

GPL different cars same chassis setup??

by Ale » Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:07:37



The opinion I've expressed in original post seems to become
more and more distorted. First, I've used the same chassis
setup, but not the same drive train setup. Ramp angles, clutches
and gearing are signigicantly different. I didn't even said that
the car handling was the same. Actually it was definitively
different. My point was that the same settings for the chassis
produced handling that I liked more than with the different
settings. For example, Lotus and Honda with the same chassis
setup handle differently, however I liked the way Honda handles
with chassis setup from Lotus much more than I like Honda's
handling with default (or any other I've tried) setup. The
same applied to Cooper and Ferrari.

My surprise was that the "optimal" for me handling for
different cars was achieved with the same chassis setup.

Hopefully this will clear thing a bit.

I also agree with opinion that one must be a good driver
to extract advantages coming from having special chassis
setup for each car. I consider setup good if
it feels like there are rails underneath. Otherwise
I will usually crash every 3rd lap (except 'Ring where
I will crash 3 times per lap), even if the setup is
capable of producing much faster times.

Alex
(alexti)

Eldre

GPL different cars same chassis setup??

by Eldre » Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:23:29



>No wonder yer so fast, Eldred!

That's only ONE track, Stephen...<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Jonny Hodgso

GPL different cars same chassis setup??

by Jonny Hodgso » Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:14:43


At risk of breaching Netiquette: me too!

Although I seem to vary ramp angles only by track, not by car...
Otherwise I'm in complete agreement.

Jonny


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