rec.autos.simulators

When I first installed the card I was very impressed with the picture
quality and my fps were 80-100 fps when running in testing. I was
diasappointed though when I would go through the corners and was noticing
considerable chop even the the frame counter was still high. After playing
around a little, I went into the D3D video options and unchecked the "Sync
with monitor refresh" and that completely fixed the problem. No chop
whatsoever.

Has anyone else noticed this? If not, at least others may read this.

The video card kicks ass and I am glad someone came out with a good video
card because I am NEVER going to buy an Nvidia product.

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MSI K7T Turbo2 BIOS v3.3
Athlon XP 1600+
256 PC133 Micron CAS 2
ATI Radeon 8500LE 250/275 <-----came clocked at this speed
351 Watt Enermax PSU
SB Live! Value
3Com NIC
Plextor 8/4/32A
Mitsumi 24x CD
Seagate Barracuda IV 40Gig
WD 13Gig

"Bill Anderson" <

  glad you have had good luck with the card.  Turning off Vsync is a known
trick around these parts...although there is at least one fella who's
convinced turning off Vsync is just about as bad at turning right at an IRL
event.
  How does the Radeon handle the opengl video with N2002?  the Nvidia cards
are markedly faster using opengl vs d3d.
dave henrie

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: p

Turning off vsync isn't a trick - it's a compromise for poor hardware and/or
software.  Any 3D engine worth it's salt (F1200X f'rinstance) looks
dramatically smoother when vsynced (as long as you've got good hardware.)
Vsync is the reason why SEGA arcade games ever since Daytona USA look so
darn smooth.  Seen Project Gotham?  Rallisport challenge? - also excellent
examples.

Nascar 2002 doesn't. Nascar 4, 2002 and GPL are the only racing sims worth
their weight IMO.

"Vsync is the reason why SEGA arcade games ever since Daytona USA look so
darn smooth.  Seen Project Gotham?  Rallisport challenge? - also excellent
examples."

I'll take a great game (Nascar 2002) that plays smooth with Vsync disabled
over games that suck ass and don't play any smoother with vsync enabled. Who
cares if it's enabled or disabled if the game plays smooth? I don't get your
point.

I did the patch for Nascar 2002 and I have heard that many have noticed
slowdowns and copying over the D3D.dll from the CD fixes it. I'll try this
later.

I was starting to do the video setup in Nascar 2002 for OpenGL and it was
taking forever. My guess is D3D is faster with every card except for an
Nvidia card. Most say D3D looks better but I'm not sure.

I wish some games were still made in Glide and 3dfx still existed.....I
guess I'm crazy.

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You sure it is a compromise turning it off, or was the whole vsync thing a
"fix" for the slow refresh and double interlaced drawing of Graphics on a TV
screen?  To me it would seem to be like having Snowchains for your car, when
you live in Houston Texas....

Exactly - Good game but a 'less than perfect' 3D engine.

Opinion noted.  3 of my favourite games too, but they're all edged out by
ISI's F1200X in terms of physics - 3D engines aside.

That's because you obviously don't understand the term 'smooth' and, even
more obviously, you don't have the faintest idea what vsync does - do you?
This thread has nothing to do with overall game quality or what Bill
Anderson enjoys playing.

Goodo.  It's a tell-tale sign of a dodgy 3D engine when it gets high frame
rates 80+ and then constantly jerks once vsync is enabled at 60Hz.  For what
it's worth, Microsoft won't even certify 3D drivers which allow the user to
disable vsync.

But I guess there'll always be the mainstream majority who think vsync
doesn't matter and that 128kbit MP3s sound great. : (

Papyrus games are so polished in every other department.  I seriously hope
that they can learn how to make a smooth 3D engine before future
releases...It's one of the reasons their games have a poor sensation of
speed which adds volumes to a simulation experience.

--
Damien Smith

ICQ: 77028579
F1 2001 rank: -11.512

"Bill Anderson"
  Don't feel like you're a lone cowboy there Bill....
dave henrie

It syncs the framerates with the monitor refresh rate. If VSync is enabled,
your graphics card waits to render the next frame, until the current frame
is completely displayed on your monitor. Notice I said it "waits" which
causes the chop. When you refresh rate is over 85hz and you are getting over
30fps, it hardly even matters if it's disabled. My point is: if you have
silky smooth framerates and no chop why does it matter if it's enabled or
disabled?

If it's choppy with it enabled, how is that better? Is theory more important
than real world performance to you? I quess "smooth" to you means enable
vsync even if it causes slowdown because it's "supposed to be" smoother. Who
doesn't know what smooth is? Look in the mirror. I could give a rats ass
what vsync is and does all I care about is smooth *** and racing. That's
important to me. How I get there is not really that important to me becasue
I KNOW WHAT SMOOTH IS.

"This thread has nothing to do with overall game quality or what Bill
Anderson enjoys playing."

No but I started this tread with a suggestion for people who might have chop
in a specific game. That's all. You have turned it into a tread about other
games that play smoother with vsync enabled. I'm sure it does with some
games. That's great. I was refering to Nascar 2002. It has nothing to do
with what Damien Smith thinks about Sega Rally and how well OTHER games play
with vsync enabled. Man your a hypocrite. Do you lack attention?

"Goodo.  It's a tell-tale sign of a dodgy 3D engine when it gets high frame
rates 80+ and then constantly jerks once vsync is enabled at 60Hz.  For what
it's worth, Microsoft won't even certify 3D drivers which allow the user to
disable vsync."

Tell Papy. I agree to a certain point. Nascar 2002 doesn't have the best
graphics or 3D engine but it's a great game still. Maybe they will hire you
and you and all your knowledge can fix such a "dodgy 3D engine". I also
could give a rats ass what Microsofts opinion of certified is because by the
time they finally certify something it's already obsolete. If the vsync
option shouldn't be there or does nothing, then why did ATI include it in
the video options?

I'm done arguing with you over this because there is really nothing to
debate. Nascar 2002 plays much smoother with vsync disabled on my machine
and I was just trying to point this out to others who MIGHT have experienced
this. If you have a complaint about Nascar 2002's 3D engine and why it
doesn't play smoothly with vsync enabled, contact Papy and tell them.

His name is Damien Smith and he could care less if disabling vsync makes a
game smoother. He lives in a world where theory is far more important than
the real world and even goes as far as calling Nascar 2002 a "dodgy 3D
engine". Too funny. Then he tells me I don't know what smooth is. Huh?

Bollocks. My Radeon 8500 drivers for both Win98 and WinXP are certified and
have the option to disable Vsync for both D3D and OpenGL. Vsync ties the
frame rate to the monitor refresh rate, that's all.