rec.autos.simulators

by **Toni Lassi** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

After a chat with a friend about the usual quality of PC steering
wheel combos, I got to thinking: who the heck designs these things?
Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
an old eight-bit digital control.

I for one am suggesting that all TM wheel designers have TM pedals
installed into their cars! Maybe they'd rethink some of these horrible
contraptions we have to put up with. I know there are hand-made
designer wheel&pedal-units, but those are inaccessible to normal
customers and are no reason why mid-priced ($100-$150) wheel units
couldn't have proper pedals. It's so easy to rethink all these crappy
designs that I'm considering applying to TM myself (well, almost).

And now to store that soapbox back in the garage...

by **Kurt Steinboc** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

I think you're right on, Toni. I'm on my third wheel since I got into this
stuff, and they all share what I think is a fundamental design flaw ...

Leverage is working exactly AGAINST you when you apply force to the throttle
or brake. That is, the base of pedals wants to tilt up, making it less
stable.

If some designer would just turn the base around, so that the fulcrum of the
pedals is on the side closer to the driver, applying force would tend to
push the base "down" and forward, increasing its friction against the floor,
and making it more stable.

I guess maybe the current way "looks" right, because the driver's heels are
resting on the base. But it just doesn't work in practice.

Manufacturers: Please send your checks directly to me.

Regards,

Kurt Steinbock

>After a chat with a friend about the usual quality of PC steering
>wheel combos, I got to thinking: who the heck designs these things?
>Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
>wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
>kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
>about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
>the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
>you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
>an old eight-bit digital control.

>I for one am suggesting that all TM wheel designers have TM pedals
>installed into their cars! Maybe they'd rethink some of these horrible
>contraptions we have to put up with. I know there are hand-made
>designer wheel&pedal-units, but those are inaccessible to normal
>customers and are no reason why mid-priced ($100-$150) wheel units
>couldn't have proper pedals. It's so easy to rethink all these crappy
>designs that I'm considering applying to TM myself (well, almost).

>And now to store that soapbox back in the garage...

by **Neil Rain** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

> After a chat with a friend about the usual quality of PC steering
> wheel combos, I got to thinking: who the heck designs these things?
> Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
> wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
> kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
> about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
> the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
> you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
> an old eight-bit digital control.

> I for one am suggesting that all TM wheel designers have TM pedals
> installed into their cars! Maybe they'd rethink some of these horrible
> contraptions we have to put up with. I know there are hand-made
> designer wheel&pedal-units, but those are inaccessible to normal
> customers and are no reason why mid-priced ($100-$150) wheel units
> couldn't have proper pedals. It's so easy to rethink all these crappy
> designs that I'm considering applying to TM myself (well, almost).

> And now to store that soapbox back in the garage...

Get a TSW2 - slightly over your price range at $220, but it's built like
a tank!

Take a look at http://www.thomas-superwheel.com

by **Nigel Nichol** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Just for interest take a look at these units.
At

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/System/9045/Features
html

>After a chat with a friend about the usual quality of PC steering
>wheel combos, I got to thinking: who the heck designs these things?
>Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
>wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
>kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
>about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
>the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
>you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
>an old eight-bit digital control.

>I for one am suggesting that all TM wheel designers have TM pedals
>installed into their cars! Maybe they'd rethink some of these horrible
>contraptions we have to put up with. I know there are hand-made
>designer wheel&pedal-units, but those are inaccessible to normal
>customers and are no reason why mid-priced ($100-$150) wheel units
>couldn't have proper pedals. It's so easy to rethink all these crappy
>designs that I'm considering applying to TM myself (well, almost).

>And now to store that soapbox back in the garage...

--

Redline Race Controls

Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports
Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy
Hamilton
New Zealand

by **Nigel Nichol** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Oops! Sorry try this address

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/System/9045/

>After a chat with a friend about the usual quality of PC steering
>wheel combos, I got to thinking: who the heck designs these things?
>Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
>wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
>kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
>about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
>the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
>you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
>an old eight-bit digital control.

>I for one am suggesting that all TM wheel designers have TM pedals
>installed into their cars! Maybe they'd rethink some of these horrible
>contraptions we have to put up with. I know there are hand-made
>designer wheel&pedal-units, but those are inaccessible to normal
>customers and are no reason why mid-priced ($100-$150) wheel units
>couldn't have proper pedals. It's so easy to rethink all these crappy
>designs that I'm considering applying to TM myself (well, almost).

>And now to store that soapbox back in the garage...

--

Redline Race Controls

Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports
Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy
Hamilton
New Zealand

by **JAY** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

bit expensive but look like they are built to with stand a nuclear war! i
think the clutch pedal is an excelent idea and am considering adding one to
my tm f1 pedals (how? any ideas?)
i must say though that the pedals on mmy TM f1 (nascar pro) are very robust,
they are heavy and dont slide around the only problem i find is the cable
out of the back and i may rerute this through the side of the unit as its
getting mangled! i brace my pedals by jamming them under my computer desk
(works well and would take a heavy throttle to move!)

jay (feedback on the clutch would be helpful)

> Oops! Sorry try this address

> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/System/9045/

> >After a chat with a friend about the usual quality of PC steering
> >wheel combos, I got to thinking: who the heck designs these things?
> >Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
> >wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
> >kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
> >about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
> >the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
> >you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
> >an old eight-bit digital control.

> >I for one am suggesting that all TM wheel designers have TM pedals
> >installed into their cars! Maybe they'd rethink some of these horrible
> >contraptions we have to put up with. I know there are hand-made
> >designer wheel&pedal-units, but those are inaccessible to normal
> >customers and are no reason why mid-priced ($100-$150) wheel units
> >couldn't have proper pedals. It's so easy to rethink all these crappy
> >designs that I'm considering applying to TM myself (well, almost).

> >And now to store that soapbox back in the garage...

> --

> Redline Race Controls

> Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports
> Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy
> Hamilton
> New Zealand

by **Scott B. Huste** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

For those of you using Thrustmaster pedals... if you have an anti-static rug
protector under your desk, Some velcro tape works great to hold the pedals in
place. Just remove the 4 corner *** stops on the pedals and put the tape on
the pedals directly. Works great and the pedals go nowhere.

Its also easy to just "detach" the pedals for maintenance.

Scott
PA-Scott

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott on TEN
G.T.S. Racing - http://www.racesimcentral.net/
High Gear "The View" Editor - http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~sbhusted
ICQ# 4395450

by **Tim (fusio** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

>Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
>wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
>kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
>about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
>the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
>you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
>an old eight-bit digital control.

[snip]

As much beating as the Logitech pedals get, they solved this problem.
Having the pedals pivot down keeps it from moving at all.
The obvious problem is that you have to limit travel... They can only
go so far down into the base, and too much travel might make for a
sore ankle on the brake side for those who drive with both feet (since
you have to hold your foot up more on the brake side).

When you're sitting in a computer chair, your legs are much more
vertical from the knees down that when seated in a car (all the cars I
like, anyhow). That always made me wonder why they used the "pivot
back" layout. My old T2 pedals used to really bother my legs.
If I had the clearance, I would have mounted them on something about
7" off the floor to duplicate the layout of my car.

Tim

by **John Bod** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

I have quite a bit of experience with the TSW and the TSW2 wheel and
pedal sets, and they do a great job of solving the pedal design
problem. As you point out, though, this comes at a price that many
people find unreasonable (or unaffordable).

There are two wheels on the market that I would recommend as being
nearly as good as the TSW pedals (and definitely quite a bit BETTER
than anything I've tried from Thrustmaster): The Mad Catz Andretti
Racing Wheel and the ACT Labs RS wheel. Both of these companies have
designed pedals that stay put and work very well, and I would highly
recommend either wheel and pedal combo over the Thrustmaster products
that I've tried.

Check out our hardware reviews at:

http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/hardware/

You can find the Mad Catz Andretti Racing Wheel review at:

http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/mcaw/

We're still reviewing the ACT Labs wheel, but so far it gets the
"thumbs up" from us.

Enjoy!

-- John Bodin
Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine
http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

>After a chat with a friend about the usual quality of PC steering
>wheel combos, I got to thinking: who the heck designs these things?
>Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
>wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
>kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
>about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
>the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
>you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
>an old eight-bit digital control.

>I for one am suggesting that all TM wheel designers have TM pedals
>installed into their cars! Maybe they'd rethink some of these horrible
>contraptions we have to put up with. I know there are hand-made
>designer wheel&pedal-units, but those are inaccessible to normal
>customers and are no reason why mid-priced ($100-$150) wheel units
>couldn't have proper pedals. It's so easy to rethink all these crappy
>designs that I'm considering applying to TM myself (well, almost).

>And now to store that soapbox back in the garage...

by **Adam** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

I would recommend the ECCI wheel as having BETTER pedals then the TSW.
Thanks.

> I have quite a bit of experience with the TSW and the TSW2 wheel and
> pedal sets, and they do a great job of solving the pedal design
> problem. As you point out, though, this comes at a price that many
> people find unreasonable (or unaffordable).

> There are two wheels on the market that I would recommend as being
> nearly as good as the TSW pedals (and definitely quite a bit BETTER
> than anything I've tried from Thrustmaster): The Mad Catz Andretti
> Racing Wheel and the ACT Labs RS wheel. Both of these companies have
> designed pedals that stay put and work very well, and I would highly
> recommend either wheel and pedal combo over the Thrustmaster products
> that I've tried.

> Check out our hardware reviews at:

> http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/hardware/

> You can find the Mad Catz Andretti Racing Wheel review at:

> http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/sims/mcaw/

> We're still reviewing the ACT Labs wheel, but so far it gets the
> "thumbs up" from us.

> Enjoy!

> -- John Bodin
> Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine
> http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

> >After a chat with a friend about the usual quality of PC steering
> >wheel combos, I got to thinking: who the heck designs these things?
> >Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
> >wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
> >kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
> >about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
> >the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
> >you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
> >an old eight-bit digital control.

> >I for one am suggesting that all TM wheel designers have TM pedals
> >installed into their cars! Maybe they'd rethink some of these horrible
> >contraptions we have to put up with. I know there are hand-made
> >designer wheel&pedal-units, but those are inaccessible to normal
> >customers and are no reason why mid-priced ($100-$150) wheel units
> >couldn't have proper pedals. It's so easy to rethink all these crappy
> >designs that I'm considering applying to TM myself (well, almost).

> >And now to store that soapbox back in the garage...

by **David L. Coo** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

After talking with Dave Thomas Jr. today (Thomas Enterprises), I'm
considering upgrading my TSW2 pedals with the new wiring, spec pots, split
axis, and clutch, all wired directly to a 15-pin game connector. That's
right no wheel. As much as I love(d) my TSW2 wheel - with GPL and FF I'll
have to do without. I've been waffling as to whether or not to go full time
with my new FF pedals, but I can't leave my TSW2 pedals ;) BTW - all the
work above breaks out like this if any other TSW2 owners are interested:

$35 upgraded wiring for split axis
$65 SPEC Pots (3)
$60 Clutch Kit
$35 Installation Labor

Heh - I wonder if after doing this for me he'll consider selling the pedals
separately...

David L. Cook

> > After a chat with a friend about the usual quality of PC steering
> > wheel combos, I got to thinking: who the heck designs these things?
> > Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
> > wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
> > kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
> > about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
> > the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
> > you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
> > an old eight-bit digital control.

> > I for one am suggesting that all TM wheel designers have TM pedals
> > installed into their cars! Maybe they'd rethink some of these horrible
> > contraptions we have to put up with. I know there are hand-made
> > designer wheel&pedal-units, but those are inaccessible to normal
> > customers and are no reason why mid-priced ($100-$150) wheel units
> > couldn't have proper pedals. It's so easy to rethink all these crappy
> > designs that I'm considering applying to TM myself (well, almost).

> > And now to store that soapbox back in the garage...

> Get a TSW2 - slightly over your price range at $220, but it's built like
> a tank!

> Take a look at http://www.thomas-superwheel.com

by **Scott B. Huste** » Wed, 02 Jun 1999 04:00:00

John,

However the Andretti cannot use seperate Axis can it ??

Scott
PA-Scott

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott on TEN
G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com
High Gear "The View" Editor - http://www.simracingnews.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~sbhusted
ICQ# 4395450

by **John Bod** » Thu, 03 Jun 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 21:21:21 -0400, "Scott B. Husted"

>John,

>However the Andretti cannot use seperate Axis can it ??

That is correct, Scott. If I discover how to re-wire them, I'll post
the info, but for the time being, they do not feature dual-axis
support for the pedals. They still work very nicely for GPL, though,
and I think as-is they would prove to be very adequate in GPL for all
but the most advanced drivers (they certainly work well enough for
me).

-- JB

by **Ken Bear** » Thu, 03 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Exactly what I do with my NASCAR Pro, as my only big issue with the pedals
was the tipping.

They go nowhere even during very heated driving sessions.

--
Ken's Sig 3.0

"Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan
Kenobi

Go #43 and #44!

volksy (at) geocities (dot) com
volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com

>For those of you using Thrustmaster pedals... if you have an anti-static
rug
>protector under your desk, Some velcro tape works great to hold the pedals
in
>place. Just remove the 4 corner *** stops on the pedals and put the
tape on
>the pedals directly. Works great and the pedals go nowhere.

>Its also easy to just "detach" the pedals for maintenance.

>Scott
>PA-Scott

>--
>Scott B. Husted
>PA-Scott on TEN
>G.T.S. Racing - http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>High Gear "The View" Editor - http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/~sbhusted
>ICQ# 4395450

by **Marko Viitane** » Thu, 03 Jun 1999 04:00:00

I solved the problem with my TM Nascar Pro by putting them above stereo
speakers and
by taping them into it. and I also have suitcase+table behing the speaker to
prevent speaker to move.. Also by raising pedals higher this way, you have
better angle to press the pedals.

here's how they are:

[] []
| |
/----------------\ <-TM Nascar Pro taped to speaker.
------------------------
| speaker |
|______________|

(I hope the picture looks okay...)

>Now that most of the cheapo plastic overthick annoyances of steering
>wheels are gone, we have to suffer from inadequate pedal systems. What
>kind of designer/engineer can come up with a pedal unit which weighs
>about 200g, slides all over the floor, has a rounded backpanel with
>the cord sticking out so you cannot balance it against a wall even if
>you wanted to, squeaks to annoy you and has the movement linearity of
>an old eight-bit digital control.

rec.autos.simulators

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues

Wheel design issues