rec.autos.simulators

by **Kenneth Howe** » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> Now that Papyrus sims have been taken over by SIERRA why can't you use the same
> telcom technology that their INN uses. Sierra has had local access number
> access for the entire country for more than 4 years now. If Papyrus is going to
> sell out to the big software giants they should reap their high end perks.

> Just an opinion from a guy with a $300 phone bill....

You didn't read this message from Charlie. You cannot use INN for Nascar..the
latency times are TOO long. NASCAR requires that know EXACTLY where the other car
since you are often nose to tail or door to door. Long latency times cause you to
see where the car was X milliseconds ago. Can you drive with a blind fold? If you
can, you are a better driver than most.

Ken Hower
KenH

by **Kenneth Howe** » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> > Join a league, the drivers are usually of a higher caliber, the races have
> > a lot fewer incidents than your average pickup race, and its fun to compete
> > with the same guys week after week.

> > Dave "davids" Sparks

> But aren't the results pretty much the same each race since you're racing the same
> drivers? Doesn't that make it difficult to increase your skill level?

No. What's worse for your skill level is racing in open races against 0,1,2,3 level
drivers getting wiped out on the first turn by some idiot and finishing in last place.
That's what makes it hard to increase your level. Increasing your laps/per incident
and finishing high in races with drivers with high skill levels will serve your skill
level much better.

by **David J. Ran** » Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>> > Join a league, the drivers are usually of a higher caliber, the races have
>> > a lot fewer incidents than your average pickup race, and its fun to compete
>> > with the same guys week after week.

>> > Dave "davids" Sparks

>> But aren't the results pretty much the same each race since you're racing the same
>> drivers? Doesn't that make it difficult to increase your skill level?
>No. What's worse for your skill level is racing in open races against 0,1,2,3 level
>drivers getting wiped out on the first turn by some idiot and finishing in last place.
>That's what makes it hard to increase your level. Increasing your laps/per incident
>and finishing high in races with drivers with high skill levels will serve your skill
>level much better.

Gee, thanks. It's this kind of attitude on Hawaii that makes it so
tough to even join a race against good competition. Everyone starts
somewhere, but I've noticed that most of the 8 on up level racers
either nominate a race at level 5 or above. So how does someone raise
their level if they can't race against them? This elitist ***has
gotta go.

David Range
"DJR" on Hawaii

by **Chuck Stuar** » Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:00:00

In a 7-15 pickup race at Taladega the other night, 75% of then starting field was wiped
out on the first lap. If we had allowed the 0-6 riff-raff to race with us everyone might
have been wiped out.:)

Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

by **Tim Villanuev** » Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:00:00

It has nothing to do with elitism.. many of us have lost skill points
repeatedly by being crashed out of races. Once you are a level 8 or
higher (which could be sooner than you think), you too, will not want
to join races with unknown quantities.

When skill levels per track-type become a reality, it will even be better,
as skill 8,9,10 means very little when it was earned on Tally, and then
used at Martinsville or North Wilkesboro.

Tim V

by **Tim Dal** » Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:00:00

writes:
starting field was wiped
Your right about those dega races but here is the important point
about racing higher level drivers...

If you race someone who is more than two points higher in skill or two
points lower it DOES NOT EFFECT YOUR SKILL. If you are a skill 3 and
race in a race with all 6,7,8,9,10,11 and now 12's your skill will not
change even if you win!! You need to race 0,1,2,3,4 and beat them with
no INCIDENTS! You will rocket up to a 5 or 8 easily. By the same token
if I race (skill 9) all 5,4,3,2,1 and 0 skill drivers I will not
advance in skill.
Read the SKILL.txt file carefully and if you have a question don't ask

know the anwsers but give out bad information because of ignorance. I
have been mislead many times by well meaning drivers.

Tim Daley
timdaley on Hawaii

by **P. B. Denton** » Thu, 04 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> > Gee, thanks. It's this kind of attitude on Hawaii that makes it so
> > tough to even join a race against good competition. Everyone starts
> > somewhere, but I've noticed that most of the 8 on up level racers
> > either nominate a race at level 5 or above. So how does someone raise
> > their level if they can't race against them? This elitist ***has
> > gotta go.

> > David Range
> > "DJR" on Hawaii

> In a 7-15 pickup race at Taladega the other night, 75% of then starting field was wiped
> out on the first lap. If we had allowed the 0-6 riff-raff to race with us everyone might
> have been wiped out.:)

> Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

It's hardy a proud comment that 75% of the field in your 7-15 Tal race
got wiped-out on the first lap... sounds an awful lot like a bunch of
rookies to me.

by **Sean Higgi** » Fri, 05 Jul 1996 04:00:00

The reason the level 8's and above nominate 5-15 races is because would
you rather get last (because of and accident) with a ton of level 0,1 and
2's or drivers that are closer to your level. I'm not too sure about
this point system for the levels, but it makes sense to me that if you
get beat by level 5's it's not as bad as getting beat by some level 0's.

Sean Higgins
Higgy

by **David J. Ran** » Fri, 05 Jul 1996 04:00:00

I knew I'd get in trouble for posting this, but I still feel it's a
legitimate complaint. I'll post my e-mail response below.

>> Gee, thanks. It's this kind of attitude on Hawaii that makes it so
>> tough to even join a race against good competition. Everyone starts
>> somewhere, but I've noticed that most of the 8 on up level racers
>> either nominate a race at level 5 or above. So how does someone raise
>> their level if they can't race against them? This elitist ***has
>> gotta go.

>> David Range
>> "DJR" on Hawaii
>It has nothing to do with elitism.. many of us have lost skill points
>repeatedly by being crashed out of races. Once you are a level 8 or
>higher (which could be sooner than you think), you too, will not want
>to join races with unknown quantities.

I understand your point. Now let me explain mine. I currently run 186
to 187's at Atlanta, 189-190's at Michigan, etc. I've had races where
I've been knocked out by higher and lower level racers. I've even
(unfortunately) knocked out other racers, for which I apologize. It
was a mistake, nothing more. It happens in real life, as it does on
Hawaii. To blame ALL low level racers for these crashes is unfair,
and makes it harder for them to move up the ladder, much less race
against the upper level drivers. For instance, say there was a level
7-15 race at Michigan, and say a racer that everyone respected and
knew could race couldn't because he was a Level 5. I don't race
against upper level drivers to gain points, but to learn from them.
Without the better racers , how can we expect these bad racers to
learn?

I agree. But it doesn't solve the problem as a whole. What I'd like to

see is an addition to the nominate window allowing the person who
nominated the race to allow drivers in not only on their skill rating
but also by their reputattion. If the other drivers agree to allow
that racer in, they can join.

David Range

by **David J. Ran** » Fri, 05 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>writes:

>>> Gee, thanks. It's this kind of attitude on Hawaii that makes it so
>>> tough to even join a race against good competition. Everyone starts
>>> somewhere, but I've noticed that most of the 8 on up level racers
>>> either nominate a race at level 5 or above. So how does someone
>>> raise their level if they can't race against them? This elitist ***has
>>> gotta go.

>>> David Range
>>> "DJR" on Hawaii

>>In a 7-15 pickup race at Taladega the other night, 75% of then
>>starting field was wiped out on the first lap. If we had allowed
>>the 0-6 riff-raff to race with us everyone might have been wiped out.:)

>>Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA
> Your right about those dega races but here is the important point
>about racing higher level drivers...
>If you race someone who is more than two points higher in skill or two
>points lower it DOES NOT EFFECT YOUR SKILL. If you are a skill 3 and
>race in a race with all 6,7,8,9,10,11 and now 12's your skill will not
>change even if you win!! You need to race 0,1,2,3,4 and beat them with
>no INCIDENTS! You will rocket up to a 5 or 8 easily. By the same token
>if I race (skill 9) all 5,4,3,2,1 and 0 skill drivers I will not
>advance in skill.
>Read the SKILL.txt file carefully and if you have a question don't ask

>know the anwsers but give out bad information because of ignorance. I
>have been mislead many times by well meaning drivers.

Actually, I'm at level 4. But it still doesn't change the fact that to

become a better racer you need to race against better competition.
I.E. watch their line. I am aware of the skill point system and how it

works, but it's hard to do if you're not allowed to race with them.
Consider also that there are racers on Hawaii who are at higher levels
by racing only at Talladega. If you're racing C***te against one,
how would you know? Who's to say that he wouldn't wipe out the field?
Blaming lower level racers for being reckless and unworthy to race
with is unfair. I enjoy racing on Hawaii, and I have become a better
racer with the help of a friend and watching other racers with the
replay feature. I save every race I'm in and replay it to watch where
I've made mistakes, or to study a leader's line or a pass. But if this
continues to occur, there will be less "good" racers to run with, and
more "bad" racers.

(Stepping off soapbox)

David Range
David Range

- Show quoted text -

by **Sean Higgi** » Fri, 05 Jul 1996 04:00:00

The problem I see with your ideas are, that if you are a lower level
driver than the rest of the field and have little experience on that
track, then you shouldn't be racing hte higher level guys to the first
turn. I have been in this situation many times, being a lower level
driver. I will go way out of my way to avoid contact and try and follow
the drivers to learn the line. I'm not saying the lower level drivers
should be racing, just not to take chances if your inexperienced. I
moved pretty fast up from level 3 to 9, granted about 60% of my races are
at Talladega, but I do race other tracks. Especially since I've been
slammed so many times lately on talladega.

Sean Higgins

Higgy

by **Gregory Fu** » Fri, 05 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>If you race someone who is more than two points higher in skill or two
>points lower it DOES NOT EFFECT YOUR SKILL. If you are a skill 3 and
>race in a race with all 6,7,8,9,10,11 and now 12's your skill will not
>change even if you win!! You need to race 0,1,2,3,4 and beat them with
>no INCIDENTS! You will rocket up to a 5 or 8 easily. By the same token
>if I race (skill 9) all 5,4,3,2,1 and 0 skill drivers I will not
>advance in skill.

I've read SKILL.txt, and I rechecked it, and by the letter of the file
you're correct. But why should this be the case? I was under the
impression that if you beat someone 10 levels higher you'd only get a +5,
not +13 (that's not really fair). I think this makes more sense anyways.

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

by **David Spark** » Tue, 09 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>Gee, thanks. It's this kind of attitude on Hawaii that makes it so
>tough to even join a race against good competition. Everyone starts
>somewhere, but I've noticed that most of the 8 on up level racers
>either nominate a race at level 5 or above. So how does someone raise
>their level if they can't race against them? This elitist ***has
>gotta go.

You have to race against people within 2 skill levels of your rating to
make or lose points. Unfortunately, this means that good drivers will have
to race in those 0-2 pickup races until they get enough points to increase
their rating. Luckily, it doesn't take long to do that. The average driver
goes from Level 0 to Level 2 in 9 races. As you get to higher skill levels,
it takes more points to go up a level, so drivers tend to advance more
slowly. You have to get a string of decent finishes to advance. Read the
SKILLS.TXT file for more information.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

by **Chuck Stuar** » Sat, 13 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> > > Join a league, the drivers are usually of a higher caliber, the races have
> > > a lot fewer incidents than your average pickup race, and its fun to compete
> > > with the same guys week after week.

> > > Dave "davids" Sparks

> > But aren't the results pretty much the same each race since you're racing the same
> > drivers? Doesn't that make it difficult to increase your skill level?

> No. What's worse for your skill level is racing in open races against 0,1,2,3 level
> drivers getting wiped out on the first turn by some idiot and finishing in last place.
> That's what makes it hard to increase your level. Increasing your laps/per incident
> and finishing high in races with drivers with high skill levels will serve your skill
> level much better.

I don't know. I went from 0 to 9 in three weeks racing 0-15 Taladega pickup races.

Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

by **Tim Dale** » Sun, 14 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> > > > Join a league, the drivers are usually of a higher caliber, the races have
> > > > a lot fewer incidents than your average pickup race, and its fun to compete
> > > > with the same guys week after week.

> > > > Dave "davids" Sparks

> > > But aren't the results pretty much the same each race since you're racing the same
> > > drivers? Doesn't that make it difficult to increase your skill level?

> > No. What's worse for your skill level is racing in open races against 0,1,2,3 level
> > drivers getting wiped out on the first turn by some idiot and finishing in last place.
> > That's what makes it hard to increase your level. Increasing your laps/per incident
> > and finishing high in races with drivers with high skill levels will serve your skill
> > level much better.

> I don't know. I went from 0 to 9 in three weeks racing 0-15 Taladega pickup races.

> Chuck Stuart - Mesquite TX USA

I did the same thing in Three Weeks... just stayed out of acidents...
Tim Daley
Milford MI

rec.autos.simulators

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