CART to drop Turbo's in 2004

by **Kevin Gavit** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 07:53:14

> > CART's engine providers -- Toyota, Honda, and Ford -- do not currently
> > build IRL-spec 3.5-liter normally-aspirated engines for the IRL, so
> > they will have no engines available for CART until they actually spend
> > the time to develop them. The current engines provided for CART by
> > these manufacturers are 2.65-liter turbos, so there's a lot of
> > development to be done in order for them to develop new 3.5-liter
> > engines for competition.

> But all three manufacturer got some whooping F1 technology to put into
> it. Honda has officially said that the reason they don't do IRL is
> that it is not technologically interesting. A rev-unlimited 3.5 L N/A
> engine on the other hand. There are two problems as I see it
> though. There is no was of reducing power on a N/A engine without
> either using a restrictor or rev-limitier. Both are not good for
> racing. Second, I just can't imagine a Reynard and Lola champcar
> chassis with a huge airbox behind the driver, uuuueeehhhh.

> --
> Olav K. Malmin
> remove .spam when replying

Just look at pictures of the Lola F5000. : )

KFG

by **Jonny Hodgso** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 07:59:07

Is there a standard fuel capacity? AFAIK the last fuel-limited series
was Group C, back in the turbo heydays... (1200+ bhp in qualifying,
wahey!)

They run Contours in the BTCC? What's a Contour? :-p

Jonny

by **Wayne Hutchiso** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 09:28:57

There is a set amount of fuel that can be used by a car during a race. I'd
have to read the rules to see if the fuel cell size itself is controlled.

Wayne Hutchison

> > As long as there's a standard fuel capacity and you're competing
> with another
> > person(s) there'll always be a fuel 'issue' surely??

> Is there a standard fuel capacity? AFAIK the last fuel-limited series
> was Group C, back in the turbo heydays... (1200+ bhp in qualifying,
> wahey!)

> > > > close. The racing Contours in BTCC series generate 300+ hp
> > > > from the same engine...

> They run Contours in the BTCC? What's a Contour? :-p

> Jonny

by **use EXCITE.COM instead** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:10:28

Fine, Mondeo. :-) It's only us yanks who call them Contours.

--KC

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 11:23:43

Here may be another Penske 'Advantage'
Ilmor assembled the engines for Penske's Indy effort.
and Scott Sharp's Pole winning car I think.
You just KNOW Penske would love to have his
Ilmor company provide engines for his cars in 2004.
Remember it was Ilmor that built the Stock Block engines that Al Unser Jr.
and Emmo Used to Dominate Indy in 1994.(this ultimately cost the company
hugely I believe...development of the Turbo engine was delayed while Ilmor
built stock blocks for Penske...but when CART dis-allowed further use of the
stock blocks, then Ilmor had to scramble to catch up. Since that
time...they have only had two seasons where the Mercedes CART engines were
competitive.)

by **Dan Belch** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 11:26:21

Yeah. Nobody wants to see the turbos go away!! I'm personally VERY F*CKING
PISSED that CART has decided to drop turbochargers. TURBOCHARGERS ARE CART'S
IDENTITY. The whine of a turbo is music to my ears...

-----------------------------------------
Dan Belcher
Team Racing Unlimited
http://simcrash.00game.com

by **Kevin Gavit** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 12:42:47

> > > > > close. The racing Contours in BTCC series generate 300+ hp
> > > > > from the same engine...

> > They run Contours in the BTCC? What's a Contour? :-p

> Fine, Mondeo. :-) It's only us yanks who call them Contours.

> --KC

Good thing they're BOTH dumb names, eh?

KFG

by **Bill Met** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:40:31

>There is a set amount of fuel that can be used by a car during a race. I'd
>have to read the rules to see if the fuel cell size itself is controlled.

>Wayne Hutchison

Complete SWAGs on my part, but I seem to remember the fuel cells as 35 US
gallons maximum. I think the max amount of fuel allocated for a race is
whatever equals 1.8 miles per gallon. I'm probably wrong but those
numbers sprang to mind when I read your post.

Bill
--
| "Instead of letting the moon be the
Bill Mette | gateway to our future, we have let
Enteract, Chicago | it become a brief chapter in our
| history." - Andrew Chaikin

by **Eldre** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:47:25

>> > > > close. The racing Contours in BTCC series generate 300+ hp
>> > > > from the same engine...

>> They run Contours in the BTCC? What's a Contour? :-p

>Fine, Mondeo. :-) It's only us yanks who call them Contours.

This yank calls them UGLY...<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +20.90...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Jason Hoeh** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 14:45:27

Yeah, i know.....

The nice thing about Champcars is they are pretty unique looking. Big and
fast but still looking very lean.... IRL cars look sooo overweight. Like a
big fat heavy clunky GP car,... Champcars will look remarkablysimilar to
IRL cars,.. ick,...

More importantl, the bigger motor will mean a higher C of G, so the cars
won;t handle as nicely on road courses,... and the motors will be heavier
and slower,....

ick.

Hopefully they are more modelled after F than the IRL motors, but Im not
totally counting on it.

by **Jason Hoeh** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 14:48:15

Not neccesarily,.... In Champcars today much of the race is dependent on the
pilot controlling boost aduring the race, and thus fuel strategy. WIh the NA
motors all of that MAY go out he door, and they can concentrate on driving
as fast as possible, and fueling when the have to, not when they "want
to"...

by **Jason Hoeh** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 14:49:12

You're bang on,....

There is no mandated fuel limit on 500 mile races though,....

by **Jason Hoeh** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 14:52:44

Amen,....

And the thought of a 1.8L HIGHLY Turbocharged motor would be the sweetest
sounding race motor on the planet,.. (well, except for maybe top
fuelers....)

Doesnt anyone rememebr the Turbo era in F1?,.. it was probably the BEST
racing in that series history, and CART might have been smart to look at a
very similar formula to what F1 had back then,... "Attack Attack
Attack!!!..."

by **Olav K. Malm** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:18:32

> > But then the champcars needs a airbox and are going to look like IRL
> > cars. bleeeeaauuhhh.

> Yeah, i know.....

> The nice thing about Champcars is they are pretty unique looking. Big and
> fast but still looking very lean.... IRL cars look sooo overweight. Like a
> big fat heavy clunky GP car,... Champcars will look remarkablysimilar to
> IRL cars,.. ick,...

IRL cars are probably some of the ugliest racecars on the planet. But
I did a little photoshop experiment and drew a line from the top of
the roll-hoop on a champcar to the engine cover a little bit behind
the pop-off valve. It actually didn't look that stupid. So imagine a
airbox not bigger than the current roll-hoop it wouldn't be too bad.

Let's hope so. Remember that that the IRL cars are designed based on
the twisted idea of a track owner, not designed based on speed. So i
think that CART will be more like F1 than IRL.

Shouldn't this discussion be at rec.autos.sport.cart ? :)

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

by **Matt Smit** » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 18:06:46

I tried this idea too and came up with this

http://www.ias.uwe.ac.uk/~matt/cart2irl.htm

See what you think.

>IRL cars are probably some of the ugliest racecars on the planet. But
>I did a little photoshop experiment and drew a line from the top of
>the roll-hoop on a champcar to the engine cover a little bit behind
>the pop-off valve. It actually didn't look that stupid. So imagine a
>airbox not bigger than the current roll-hoop it wouldn't be too bad.