>>Just remind me I am twice your age by comparing yourself with my son!!!
>Can't be all bad - you're not the one who spun the lead away at Spa!
Cheers
Tony
1999 IGPS GPL Series 2nd place 6 points behind "bonus boy" Nash
>>Just remind me I am twice your age by comparing yourself with my son!!!
>Can't be all bad - you're not the one who spun the lead away at Spa!
Cheers
Tony
1999 IGPS GPL Series 2nd place 6 points behind "bonus boy" Nash
Andy
> Love to disagree here - any practice is good practice. Your 100 sim racers
> will dominate in your little hypothetical example here.
> >Of course not! Driving a racing simulator and driving a race car is two
> >completely different activities who have no similarities at all.
> >Try this thought experiment. Collect at random 200 people who have never
> driven
> >a real race car or a racing simulator, but drive to work every day in their
> >street car. Let 100 of them spend 10 hours a week (this is how much the
> hard
> >core sim racer practice) for two years driving a racing simulator with a
> wheel,
> >pedals and a gear stick, for example GPL with a Thrustmaster Formula Pro
> wheel.
> >Let the other 100 continue to just drive their street car to work. After
> these
> >two years let all 200 take a three day course in driving a real race car,
> where
> >there will be timed laps on the last day. It goes without saying that the
> 200
> >people will be evenly spread in that time chart, cause driving a racing
> >simulator can not possibly prepare you for the real thing, now can it :o)?
> >/Christer
> >--
> >http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
> >racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause
> noone
> >has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).
> >http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/GplLadder/SOGL/ (Join one of the online GPL
> >ladders)
When I drove the FV for the first time, it immediately reminded me of
the GPL demo I had been playing the month before. When I drive GPL now,
it reminds me of my marvelous trip to England. GPL is very realistic,
although I still think that the grip level is just a little bit too low.
No car will start sliding when you enter a corner at a balanced throttle
at low speed. That car in GPL does that very thing, and I think it's
unrealistic.
Let's just hope that a modern F1 at the GPL quality level will appear in
the near future. For me, GPL is great but I miss the high tech and
driving againt the Mika's, Michael and Jean.
Hill, Clark, etc. were great, but for a young person like me there's no
real band.
> I agree, Ben. Although the sim can't develop all the skills you need -
> it will develop some of them, particularly hand-eye coordination, speed
> of reaction and anticipation of the physics
> Andy
> > Love to disagree here - any practice is good practice. Your 100 sim racers
> > will dominate in your little hypothetical example here.
> > >Of course not! Driving a racing simulator and driving a race car is two
> > >completely different activities who have no similarities at all.
> > >Try this thought experiment. Collect at random 200 people who have never
> > driven
> > >a real race car or a racing simulator, but drive to work every day in their
> > >street car. Let 100 of them spend 10 hours a week (this is how much the
> > hard
> > >core sim racer practice) for two years driving a racing simulator with a
> > wheel,
> > >pedals and a gear stick, for example GPL with a Thrustmaster Formula Pro
> > wheel.
> > >Let the other 100 continue to just drive their street car to work. After
> > these
> > >two years let all 200 take a three day course in driving a real race car,
> > where
> > >there will be timed laps on the last day. It goes without saying that the
> > 200
> > >people will be evenly spread in that time chart, cause driving a racing
> > >simulator can not possibly prepare you for the real thing, now can it :o)?
> > >/Christer
> > >--
> > >http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
> > >racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause
> > noone
> > >has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).
> > >http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/GplLadder/SOGL/ (Join one of the online GPL
> > >ladders)
While you also need guts to drive 200kmh around a corner in faster race cars, IMO
simulations teach you proper cornering techniques, checking your mirrors (or
turning your head ;o)), and maybe steering with throttle, but that's it. Sims
(haven't seen one yet) don't teach you how to do heel-toe braking on manual
transmission ,they don't give you real track experience. But I think really fast
simracers could have a slight advanatge over other drivers on the D-day :o)
Tadej Krevh
I disagree. I did a racing school at Nazareth speedway last summer. I
have been driving racing sims for years and know the "proper way" through
corners etc (something I think someone with sim or real racing training
is used to). I was one of the fastest, if not THE fastest around the
oval. I think the difference was that I was comfortable much quicker than
the others. I had driven karts and had a short Formula 2000 class before
this one (on a road course) which also may have helped. Since I got
comfortable quicker, I could start pushing earlier. It was a blast.
At the local karting track, I had been kinda fast but there was one guy
who I work with that I couldn't beat. After GPL came out, I drove it
incessantly and got used to tossing the car, using the throttle to control
steering etc. When we went to the kart track a month later, I was faster
and felt like I was much smoother. He said that my style had changed
completely.
A sim can teach you lots of things that will improve your times elsewhere.
Proper line technique through corners, car balance (sort of), braking
(sort of) and something someone else mentioned: thinking while driving.
Racecraft takes a long time to get used to if you have never driven a sim.
After you learn the "car control" part of racing, you must enter the world
of "what it takes to win". Another thing entirely... How do you pass?,
where do you pass?, Where DON'T you pass? etc.
J.
But I think your thought experience is useless, because a thought
experiment only has value if it adds to the clearification of a
problem, and you're just restating the problem in another form.
grx,Hans
/Christer
> On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:51:29 +0100, Christer Andersson
> I think it's an interesting question, the influence of racing
> sinulation on real life driving. I think you can train responsiveness
> and a lot about racing (real life and simulator) has to do with
> responsiveness. I also think u get more used to aproaching corners
> with high (on the edge) speeds without wetting your pants.
> But I think your thought experience is useless, because a thought
> experiment only has value if it adds to the clearification of a
> problem, and you're just restating the problem in another form.
> grx,Hans
/Christer
> --Tel
:-)
Either way, it's still the two of us flying the flag for the UK atop the
table - and all those yanks are behind us....! <grin>
Cheers!
Graeme Nash
http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
ICQ# 11257824
1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion
"No similarities at all"? Meaning they are _completely_ dissimilar in
your mind? You must recognise the absurdity of that statement surely?
Racing simulations can teach a LOT about how to drive a real car. Of
course they can never _completely_ prepare you for the real thing, but
they can teach you race strategy, correct driving line, fundamentals
of setup, slipstreaming - basically anything that is modelled in a sim
can be learned to some degree. What cannot be taught is just exactly
how scary it is to drive a racecar at or near the limit, but then that
only comes with experience. People who believe they push their road
car "hard" are almost invariably horrified at just how much further a
car must be pushed on the track, and not only in fits and starts but
consistently on the ragged edge and never beyond.
People will naturally fall into a gaussian distribution of talent even
with no practice, so what you will find is the talented sim drivers at
the top, then the talented car drivers, then the others. If you
measured on the first day you would find the gap even more pronounced,
since driving your car to work tells you almost nothing about what you
need to do in a racecar, whereas sim-racing tells you quite a lot.
Cheers!
John