rec.autos.simulators

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:20:37

"Biz"

I'm trying to remember how many Honda Mills Senna and Prost blew up....
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anyone?
dave henrie

by **Haqsa** » Sat, 15 Mar 2003 00:36:13

Well of course this is very much a matter of opinion, but I like to see
people actually racing for position on the track, and NASCAR does that
better than anybody else. Admittedly, it does sometimes seem like it is not
so much one long race as it is a series of short sprint races separated by
yellows, but in its own way that is still exciting. It's not like they
reform in the same order every time, after all. Each sprint from one yellow
to the next is different. And the yellow flags are what allow people to
come back from an accident and still finish on the lead lap. Many times I
have seen races won by people who started in the back. That's rare in other
forms of racing, although you will occasionally see it in CART also. But
the full course caution is the key thing that equalizes the playing field,
that makes starting position less important, makes track position more
important, and makes it possible to recover from a bad shunt. That's why I
would really like to see more use of the full course caution in F1, I think
it would make for better races.

Races that essentially start after the last (of many) yellow flags aren't
much fun for me.......

Paul

by **Eldre** » Sat, 15 Mar 2003 01:23:11

And that sucks. If you***up, you should be OUT. None of this "the yellow
flag allows me to stay on the same lap with drivers who actually kept it ON THE
TRACK..." That shit pisses me off in online races, too. What good does it do
to stay in control of your car when the hotshoes can crash, get back on the
track, and get the gift to let them keep up? That's why I like full-damage
races - if you***up and crash, grab some bench and watch the rest of the
race from the stands...

Eldred
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by **Haqsa** » Sat, 15 Mar 2003 05:12:20

It's not always the fault of the guy who took the damage. More often than
not one guy screws up and ten guys end up getting damaged. If somebody
takes you out through their carelessness, wouldn't you like to have the
chance to repair and come back in?

by **Paul Laidla** » Sat, 15 Mar 2003 07:37:05

Indeed.

It's the one thing I really don't like much about CART, far too many full
course yellows when a local yellow would do just fine and they are far too
slow at removing the cars too. Of course you can only have a full course
yellow at the oval races.

Paul

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 15 Mar 2003 09:24:01

"Paul Laidlaw"

This has been covered here years ago..they have tried to limit the full
course yellows...but the short version is: Mario Andretti twice hit cars
under local yellows...Yes the same World Champion, the Same candidate for
All Around best driver...the same guy who's won everything but LeMans. He
hit a car that had been parked under local yellow after lapping past it
about 6 times....then at a another track: when the emergency crew was
trying to extricate his son from a wall...he plowed into the safety
truck..also while a local yellow was flying. After that, the safety crew
guys said NO MORE! (well thats what the translation was at least)
dave henrie

by **alex** » Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:28:50

>> Not a NASCAR fan then, I take it? I watch races to see people race
>> against each other. Races that are essentially over after the first
>> lap aren't much fun to watch, and races that are essentially over
>> after the last round of pit stops aren't much better. IMO.

> Races that essentially start after the last (of many) yellow flags
> aren't much fun for me.......

And what's about races when only half of the field participate
in this race, because another half is thinking that there will
be one more yellow?

Alex.

by **Richard S Becket** » Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:05:29

Some of the best races I have ever seen have started with the leader
storming off into the distance. As the race progressed, he couldn't keep
increasing his lead, then it was gradually eroded, until there was a
fantastic wheel to wheel showdown for the last 10 laps or so.

Other good races I've seen are where the leader in on a 3 stop strategy, and
the next man is on a 1 stopper. The leader streaks away, into a big lead,
then stops, and comes out just before/behind. He then passes and streaks
away again. Then second man starts getting faster and faster, and starts
catching him. They race wheel to wheel for some laps, then both pit, who
emerges first?!!! Finally the 3 stopper gets away and streaks off, only to
have to pit again, putting them right back together, where they have a
fantastic battle to the end of the race.

These kind of races IMO are exciting, and interesting to watch.

Throw in a safety car incident, and all that is lost.

> Not a NASCAR fan then, I take it? I watch races to see people race
against
> each other. Races that are essentially over after the first lap aren't
much
> fun to watch, and races that are essentially over after the last round of
> pit stops aren't much better. IMO.

> > Or more frustrating, depending on your perspective. As someone who
still
> > appreciates the skill and effort required to build up a huge lead,
either
> > through driver skill or team strategy, I really hate seeing it eroded by
a
> > safety car phase. But that's just one opinion. But I agree that the
> > variable fuel loads and different tire choices made the first laps
> > exciting...

> > S.

by **Haqsa** » Sun, 16 Mar 2003 01:26:53

How is that different, from a spectator standpoint, than the pit stop
strategy "races" that F1 has?

by **alex** » Sun, 16 Mar 2003 13:52:12

125164.news.dfncis.de:

Well, even when everything settles after the first few laps spectators
can entertain themselves by figuring out the best possible strategy
for their favourite driver/team and them by sweating when the driver/team
does something stupid instead:)

It's probably a personal opinion, but I find the anticipation
of pit stops very entertaining. Just imagine you're following
another GPL driver for 30+ laps and you're not able to pass,
because there's not much chances to pass and then pit stop
time comes and then you have this feeling when you're trying
to outlast him and either you need to put a flyer on the only
remaing lap of fuel you got or sometimes you pit on the same lap:)
Somehow I can associate myself with F1 drivers in similar
situations and it makes me kind of glued to TV screen in those
races.

Alex.

>> And what's about races when only half of the field participate
>> in this race, because another half is thinking that there will
>> be one more yellow?

>> Alex.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:44:31

> This has been covered here years ago..they have tried to limit the full
>course yellows...but the short version is: Mario Andretti twice hit cars
>under local yellows...Yes the same World Champion, the Same candidate for
>All Around best driver...the same guy who's won everything but LeMans. He
>hit a car that had been parked under local yellow after lapping past it
>about 6 times....then at a another track: when the emergency crew was
>trying to extricate his son from a wall...he plowed into the safety
>truck..also while a local yellow was flying. After that, the safety crew
>guys said NO MORE! (well thats what the translation was at least)
>dave henrie

I remember that - Detroit?
I thought the full course yellows were mandated after Willy T. Ribbs hit and
killed a corner worker in Vancouver...

Eldred
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by **Eldre** » Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:44:31

>It's not always the fault of the guy who took the damage. More often than
>not one guy screws up and ten guys end up getting damaged. If somebody
>takes you out through their carelessness, wouldn't you like to have the
>chance to repair and come back in?

>> And that sucks. If you***up, you should be OUT. None of this "the
>yellow
>> flag allows me to stay on the same lap with drivers who actually kept it
>ON THE
>> TRACK..." That shit pisses me off in online races, too. What good does
>it do
>> to stay in control of your car when the hotshoes can crash, get back on
>the
>> track, and get the gift to let them keep up? That's why I like
>full-damage
>> races - if you***up and crash, grab some bench and watch the rest of
>the
>> race from the stands...

Shit happens in REAL racing, too...<g>

Eldred
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with experience...
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by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:51:04

Remember Eldred I refuse to be challenged by accurate facts. :)
I think the first Mario run-in was like at Long Beach and the 2nd was
indeed Detroit. Soon after this Mikey went through his anger phase and
began cutting tires with his wing endplate. Jimmy Vasser and Robbie Gordon
were frequent targets...but Jr and some others got mysterious flats while
running ahead of Mike Andretti.
dave henrie

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