rec.autos.simulators

by **Stephen Smit** » Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:52:10

Michael, et al.,

CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

--Steve Smith

> > Check www.cart.com for details.

> On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state
> that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. -
> one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART.

> Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a CART
> car, and a well known track and figure this ***out all on my own.... ;)

> MRSisson

> --
> LOAD "GPL",8,1
> RUN

by **Stephen Smit** » Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:55:52

Correction, please.

*remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be
p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster?

--Steve

> Michael, et al.,

> CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here:

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> --Steve Smith

> > > Check www.cart.com for details.

> > On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state
> > that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. -
> > one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART.

> > Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a CART
> > car, and a well known track and figure this ***out all on my own....
;)

> > MRSisson

> > --
> > LOAD "GPL",8,1
> > RUN

by **Marc Collin** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:50:52

Are they cancelling the Vancouver race--no? Toronto and Vancouver are the
two "best" races (in terms of fan support, money rolling in, reception,
etc.) according to Bobby Rahal.

The track that is near Montreal that is worth a look is Mont Tremblant--used
in the Mosport era. Tommy Hilfiger bought it last year and it is scheduled
to be re-opened soon. I took a walking tour if it this past summer in it's
pre-reconstruction condition. What a GPL moment! I hope someone creates
this track as a GPL add-on.

You must be joking that race fans would not want to see two races on the
same track...ever heard of a small series called NASCAR!?!?!?!

Marc.

> Marc,

> you say, how many times will the audience want to come back to the same
> track. Two, comparisons with F1 will be unflattering to one or the other
> (to the detriment of the loser). Three, Ste. Jovite (the one-time
> alternative) at least has some tradition with Indy cars. Four, the CART

> And, most of all, what about road racing fans in the western 4/5ths of
> Canada? No more Vancouver? Bring back Westwood!

> --Steve Smith

> > Aside from the fact this is another race close to me (in Toronto), I
> cannot
> > wait to see a CART race on the same track as F1 race. This will be the
> only
> > one (for next year), but I think it will pretty quickly clear up any
> notions
> > that the CART series is not world class racing.

> > Marc.

> > > Check www.cart.com for details.

by **Marc Collin** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:53:12

CART actually believes that racing should occur...when possible. I wish we
could say the same for the FIA.

Marc.

> Correction, please.

> *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be
> p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster?

> --Steve

> > Michael, et al.,

> > CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here:

> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > --Steve Smith

> > > > Check www.cart.com for details.

> > > On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state
> > > that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. -
> > > one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART.

> > > Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a
CART
> > > car, and a well known track and figure this ***out all on my own....
> ;)

> > > MRSisson

> > > --
> > > LOAD "GPL",8,1
> > > RUN

by **ymenar** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:54:26

This is in no way a CART representation of the circuit. It's just the way
AutoRacing1.com would like to see the track. Nobody has yet to see any plan
of new track, if there is any of that new track. Heck even I made my own
modified track map :( http://www3.sympatico.ca/yves.menard/carttrack.gif )

IMHO only the second modified portion is possible, considering the safety
zone in the Senna curves is inexistant and too dangerous for CART cars
heading straight on there (I made the same error myself in my map). The
second portion of the circuit is already in existance, it's used as a
bicycle track and there is enough space to level the width of that portion.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **ymenar** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:57:31

> *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be
> p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster?

I was thinking again about that map and it's impossible to have it that way.
The second modified portion of the circuit has a 20feet hill in Turn 5.
Anybody who remembers the crash that Olivier Panis suffered in Turn 5 knows
that you can't build a track from there. The bicycle track runs from Turn 3
instead all the way to the backstretch in T7. Sorry for the error, I saw
that after I posted the message. If you check out the second picture on that
site you can see the bicycle road after T3. Heck, I was there two nights
ago ;-)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:09:39

CART biggest problem? They chose the WRONG method for slowing
the cars down at the small ovals. A few years ago, the racing was furious,
almost touring car intensity. Now with the greatly deminished downforce
rules
at the small ovals, the cars line up and parade around.
Increased Grip equals Increased racing...when will the world's various
series realize this?
dave henrie

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:17:19

> > *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be
> > p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster?

> > --Steve

Yes the pictures and the text don't seem to agree. The current track is
shown
with the solid lines, then they show the two added chicanes which the text
says will add two braking points for the CHAMP cars. Yet the track graphics
say
those changes will be for the F1 cars. Methinks the graphic artist and the
article author need to confer a-bit more.
It would make sense for Uncle Bernie to add unessessary(how DO you spell
that word?) chicanes based on the FIA's past actions.
On the other hand, the Portland track in the Western US, has had a
re-model on the table for years that would bypass the excellant last series
of 4 corners and make just one sweeping turn. This, I think, in an effort
to influence Nascar to bring the Winston Cup cars up North. I hope it
doesn't come to pass.
Finally, the CART cars at Mid Ohio bypass a chicane right before the
carosel. So why add more at GV??
dave henrie

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:44:19

(snip)
(unsnip)

When the controlling bodies are made up of the drivers.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

by **Wayne Hutchiso** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:55:26

You're correct. The dotted lines are the current F1 circuit.

Wayne

> Correction, please.

> *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be
> p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster?

> --Steve

> > Michael, et al.,

> > CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here:

> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > --Steve Smith

> > > > Check www.cart.com for details.

> > > On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state
> > > that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. -
> > > one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART.

> > > Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a
CART
> > > car, and a well known track and figure this ***out all on my own....
> ;)

> > > MRSisson

> > > --
> > > LOAD "GPL",8,1
> > > RUN

by **bl..** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:15:19

why bernie doesn't want a direct comparison taken from autosport
website

first want to say I enjoy your work, both past and present. Now my
question is this: a raging debate I have with friends concerns CART
and F1.

I am a fan of both series, however, I tell my CART friends that if an
F1 car and CART car were to lap the same track, say, Circuit Gilles
Villeneuve (because of the impending CART race rumoured to be held
there in 2002 at the expense of Vancouver), the F1 car would be at
least five seconds faster. I would also say that Montoya in the
Ganassi would not outqualify Mazzacane in the Minardi. Could you
perhaps shed an adventurous opinion?
Dino Giorgio, Ottawa, Canada

Dear Dino,
First of all, like you I am a fan of both F1 and CART. If indeed CART
does go to Montreal, to the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, it will be
fascinating, because it's a very long time since both types of car
have run at the same track in the same year.

Would the F1 cars be "at least five seconds faster", as you suggest?
Until the CART cars have run there, that must remain in the realms of
conjecture. Logically, given that the CART cars are very much heavier,
and do not have carbon brakes, they would be at a severe disadvantage
at a track like Montreal, which puts a premium on braking - but still
I find it hard to imagine Mazzacane's Minardi being quicker than
Montoya in one of Ganassi's Reynards...

It's a very long time now, and the regulations in both series were
different from now, but back in 1978 the Indycars, then competing for
the USAC Championship (the year before CART was launched), came to
England for a couple of races, at Silverstone and Brands Hatch.

This was the beginning of the 'ground effect' era in F1, the year of
domination by the Lotus 79s of Mario Andretti and Ronnie Peterson. At
the USAC race at Silverstone, though, I have never forgotten the sight
of Danny Ongais's Parnelli on its pole lap. This car emphatically did
not have any ground effect technology, but Ongais lapped in 1m16.25s.
At the time, the F1 lap record was 1m 19.60s...

On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:55:26 -0500, "Wayne Hutchison"

>You're correct. The dotted lines are the current F1 circuit.

>Wayne

>> Correction, please.

>> *remove* two chicanes. Now *that's* more like it...but won't Bernie be
>> p*ssed if the loathesome Indy cars are faster?

>> --Steve

>> > Michael, et al.,

>> > CART intends to add two chicanes (why?); details here:

>> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

>> > --Steve Smith

>> > > > Check www.cart.com for details.

>> > > On AtlasF1.com and Autosport.com the articles they have up each state
>> > > that the FIA is expected to demand layout changes to the track. I.e. -
>> > > one layout for F1 and then a different variation for CART.

>> > > Man, I am going to have to save up cash one day to buy an F1 car, a
>CART
>> > > car, and a well known track and figure this ***out all on my own....
>> ;)

>> > > MRSisson

>> > > --
>> > > LOAD "GPL",8,1
>> > > RUN

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:17:44

This goes even farther back...didn't Dan Gurney once offer a challenge to
any F1 team to race against an Indy car?
dave henrie
<> It's a very long time now, and the regulations in both series were

by **MichaelJ** » Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:31:52

Surely one of the problems with F1 at the moment is that the level of
downforce required means that cars can't follow one another closely -
the turbulent air means the front wing becomes inefficient. You see it
time and time again as the car behind can't stay close through the turn.

I would say Increased Mechanical Grip, not increased downforce.

- Michael

by **Stephen Smit** » Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:29:35

Marc,

Vancouver's days are numbered.

Bernie has indicated Ste. Jovite (pronounced Jovit' by the
linguistically-challenged locals) is an unsuitable venue for his mincing
aristocrats.

Tommy Hilfiger...wasn't he created from whole cloth, like the Monkees?

I've heard of NASCAR. (More importantly, I've heard of the Indianapolis
Motor Speedway.) I've also heard of very few ailing series that want to
stage events in the same neighborhood twice. Ever heard of Belle Isle?
Ever heard of MIS? Detroiters have...and they don't show up at both events.
Canadians, tho'...go configure...as we say in the computa biz, eh?

--Steve Smith

> Are they cancelling the Vancouver race--no? Toronto and Vancouver are the
> two "best" races (in terms of fan support, money rolling in, reception,
> etc.) according to Bobby Rahal.

> The track that is near Montreal that is worth a look is Mont
Tremblant--used
> in the Mosport era. Tommy Hilfiger bought it last year and it is
scheduled
> to be re-opened soon. I took a walking tour if it this past summer in
it's
> pre-reconstruction condition. What a GPL moment! I hope someone creates
> this track as a GPL add-on.

> You must be joking that race fans would not want to see two races on the
> same track...ever heard of a small series called NASCAR!?!?!?!

> Marc.

> > Marc,

As
> > you say, how many times will the audience want to come back to the same
> > track. Two, comparisons with F1 will be unflattering to one or the
other
> > (to the detriment of the loser). Three, Ste. Jovite (the one-time
> > alternative) at least has some tradition with Indy cars. Four, the CART

> > And, most of all, what about road racing fans in the western 4/5ths of
> > Canada? No more Vancouver? Bring back Westwood!

> > --Steve Smith

> > > Aside from the fact this is another race close to me (in Toronto), I
> > cannot
> > > wait to see a CART race on the same track as F1 race. This will be
the
> > only
> > > one (for next year), but I think it will pretty quickly clear up any
> > notions
> > > that the CART series is not world class racing.

> > > Marc.

> > > > Check www.cart.com for details.

by **ymenar** » Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:35:59

> Bernie has indicated Ste. Jovite (pronounced Jovit' by the
> linguistically-challenged locals)

Your just trolling. What a shame of yourself, writing such bigotry on my
people.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

rec.autos.simulators

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002

CART at Gilles Villeneuve in 2002