rec.autos.simulators

Sorry if this has been stated already but with the mass number of GPL
posts in here I cant spend all my time reading through all of them.

What I did read was alot of comment on how GPL handled well or poorly,
depending on how people perceived it.

There is a simple answer to fixing the steering problem: Options

I fully believe that all of todays racing games should provide a well
thought out Control Settings Options menu. I believe MS Cart had quite
a few options in their Control Setup area if I remember right.

Allow us to control how fast the steering response is in the first 25%
of movement off center. And allow for sensitivity setting between
25%-50% off center. And from 50%to75% and how sensitive the last 25%
of steering movement is.

Basicly what I'm saying is, all race games should provide the ability
to make the steering feel right for who ever plays the game. With all
sorts of different controlers out there it seems such an obvious
mistake to not include it. And a simple sensitivity bar is NOT
enough!!

I think they've done a wonderful job with the pyhsics and graphics
engines, they've really made a huge step forward in sim racing.  But
that alone won't make the game a succes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they'd sell copies of that software
only to the people reading this NG they wouldn't make any money out of
it, because of the huge amount of money involved in making such a
title.  And any John Smith (one of the "ordinary" people who will buy
this title and make it a success) doesn't necessarily have the latest
or most expensive control device.  John Smith won't run out and buy
himself a brand new "Hyper-stimulator" just for playing GPL, he will
probably need to adapt the game to the hardware he has, so OPTIONS
could be his only hope.  If he likes the game he'll tell every friend
he has to go out and buy it.  If he's not satisfied he'll return it
for a refund and tell all his friends not to buy it.  And I'm sure the
vast majority of his friends aren't reading this NG so you won't be
able to tell them otherwise.  Believe me, that difference could add up
to a considerable amount of money, assuming all the "John Smith"s out
there are a significant part of the market.

Anyway I just can't see how adding such options would affect the game
for you *** sim racers, so why are you slamming the door on those
who say it should be part of the final game?  You'd only have to turn
those options off and tell yourself (one or more times) "Those are not
real " and then the game would be exactly as you wish it was!  I don't
understand...  Or maybe some of you are scared they'd be one of those
"not real" sim racers who use them and then they would feel like they
are cheating...  I'm already seeing the birth of an "Anonymous
Steering-Options Users" association...  "Hello, ASOU?  I need help, I
can't turn them off!  I'm ashamed of myself...".  Uh-oh, I need some
sleep methinks...

I know I'm not the only one who's frustrated at the way this NG
handles criticism towards their beloved car sims.  I'd like to be able
to discuss that subject with people who care about everyone who likes
sims.  I love sims, but at this time I'm struggling with GPL maybe
because of a bad controller (TM GP1), and I've advanced the idea of a
"reduce with speed" option a la GP2.  Someone else thought of a "low
sensitivity zones" option.  Are there any more ideas out there?  I'd
like to think so.  If anyone has any new idea or would like to discuss
about the pros/cons of any of the ideas that were previously
mentioned, please do so.  But if you only want to slap me in the face
with a "you're just saying that cause you can't drive" type of post,
then please don't waste your time and mine.

I know some of you associate me with the well known Charles Mak, but I
don't even know him.  I just want to say that even though the way he
expresses his ideas is arguably  the worst I've seen, he still had the
right to express what he feels about the game and its shortcomings.  I
for one am sure that Papy (if they still read this NG as they always
did) is taking notes at the moment and we could still see some of our
ideas implemented in the final game.

I'm sorry for those of you who don't think this is important, but I
had to comment on this since almost noone (of the
gurus/regulars/whatever here) seem to take this matter seriously.

I hope those who care will help us (and hopefully Papyrus) find a
solution to this problem.

A. Renault

It's not just making it "feel right" -  setting steering
to "linear" doesn't ensure a linear output if your
controller has a sag or something in part of it's travel.

Some games (high end internet flight sims at least) have
functions you can set to scale your joysticks to
provide both the reponse you want by allowing you
to scale around any peculiarities in your controllers.

- Matt
WarBirds: =para=

    I have a iP233mmx/Voodoo II/64meg EDO and run with the following
graphics options only (800 X 600)

    track, groove, walls, horiz, tyres(both)

  Detail bias (draw ahead) is set to full

   All Voodoo options enabled.

   If you have a cpu lesser than iP233mmx and are running with more
options than this then that is your problem!

First off I want to say that my control problem isn't related to a FPS
problem since all runs very smoothly.  I have a P200 classic with 32
megs ram, Intense3D/Pure3D combo, Gigabyte Intel-TX MB, SB16, TM GP1.
I've played the game at different levels of details, but usually I
have everything ahead, nothing but track behind, detail bias at full.
I'd estimate my FPS to be somewhere between 25-30 FPS.

What I'm experiencing is the unability to make small corrections while
at full speed on a straight.  Every little movement seems to upset the
car and soon I find myself oscillating from left to right.  Under
braking this can obviously be a problem.

A. Renault

Dave

On Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:27:54 -0400, "David G Fisher"

I'm sure they could.  Is it the only solution possible?  I doubt it.
I know the guys at Papy can come out with something brand new, heck
just look at the physics engine they've done!  But I think maybe we
can help them find a solution that matches what we really want/need.
That's why I started that discussion in the first place.

As for using Microsoft's technique, I think the speed sensitivity
slider would be a good idea, but I wonder why someone would want to
include a null-zone slider in a car sim...  Maybe that helps joystick
users I don't really know, I've only used one for a few weeks with GP2
and I hated it so much I placed an order for my current TM GP1...

Thank you for taking the time to comment on this!

A. Renault

Have you tried lessor resolutions with more details on?  I found that 640 or
even 512 was quite palatable, and much better to drive.

MM

On Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:02:10 -0700, "Mark E. Mooney"

A. Renault

    I have a iP233mmx/Voodoo II/64meg EDO and run with the following
graphics options only (800 X 600)

    track, groove, walls, horiz, tyres(both)

   Cars only in mirrors.

  Detail bias (draw ahead) is set to full

   All Voodoo options enabled.

   I strongly recomend running like this. Especially turn off trees,
trackside textures and crowd.

% >
% > Have you tried lessor resolutions with more details on?  I found that 640 or
% > even 512 was quite palatable, and much better to drive.
% >

%    This makes little difference with the V2. If you look at benchmarks
% for the V2 at 640 X 480 and 800 X 600 the difference is just about zero.
% It's the amount of different objects and textures that the cpu needs to
% generate that is the *** factor here.

By the benchmarks maybe, but it may just be that the code for GPL in the
demo isn't optimized to bare the fruit of the benchmarks.  There is a
marked difference between the resolutions in the GPL demo with the V2.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

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