rec.autos.simulators

l8er
ronny

--
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Unfortunately I was. I was disappointed enough having paid BT for the
pleasure of downloading it, and massively more so having paid 30 for
basically what I already had - and I need to put correct cars and
drivers by myself. No thanks.

Cheers!
John

Cheers!
John

R.A.S. is hardly a plague, though there are
a few bacteria floating around.

--
Pat Dotson

They "used" telemetry.. that's the somehow "almost" false adverti***t from
saying "Developed with Renault Sports".  That means they used some of the
telemetry and also had some sound test with this group. Nothing more.  Of
course you probably think you know more than me. Ever went to the Ubisoft HQ
in Montreal ? Talked with employees, saw early builds, checked out some tech
stuff they had ? No heh ? well don't say your right on points you don't
know.

The Papyrus crew has alot of real racecar driver in their group of
employees, including Beta testers AND current employees.  Don't tell me Im
wrong. because Im not.  About all of them also go take a racing school
weekend, compared to the 2 guys at Ubi.  That's _two_.  Ever heard of
somebody called David Kaemmer ? <vbg>

Cmon David, you know NOTHING about Ubisoft, and your trying to say your
right ? You know NOTHING also about Papyrus, and your trying to say Im
wrong. Please...

They won't never ask me.  NEVER... Because, well I can't comment on this.

The only way I would have a N3 build under my house is if TEN ever has the
job to port it on the NROS, since Im a NROS beta tester and NROS
Official/Guide.

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Sponsored by http://www.racesimcentral.net/
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

 MS?

A Ubi Soft tech kindly took some of his time to answer some technical
questions but we both know that does not  exactly indicate a desire by Ubi
Soft to tap r.a.s. for feedback.

Trans Am sim? How many posts did he make?

Leading technical expert in all of sims? Says who?

Finding a particular snowflake in a blizzard is easier than finding a sim
developer on r.a.s. who wants feedback on a sim in developement.

Awww, Pat. That hurt. Especially at Christmas time.

David G Fisher

Im sure your memory can easily remember 1year ago exactly. All the fake
hype, false stuff, 3dfx patch ***, etc.. ?

It was all mostly true. (That's just ppl from C:PR, as below you will find
info about the MTM2 group).

Yes the US Ubi tech guy was very good, even if brief.  But that's all.
Nadda. I agree.

He posted about a dozen times (can't remember his name sorry).  Oh and let's
not forget Steven Travers, Adam Levesque, Charlie Heath, David Matson, Eric
Busch, and ALL the other ex-employees, people I forgot or beta testers.  All
helping us here.  And us helping them.

So you don't consider any Papyrus employee as a sim developer ? Oh and you
probably forgot that at least 2 guys from the TRI group had some discussions
via email about Monster Truck Madness2.  They were really great to talk to
whom, and that made me buy their software. Especially after one of them told
me 1) How far they went into the physics of it 2) That r.a.s. is a great
place to find what the hard-core simracers want.

Cmon David, Im full of facts, you know this.  It's always fun and pleasant
to argument with you ;-)    . And I didn't even check out Dejanews !

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide <NAS-Frank> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

Which one of Papyrus's staff spent a couple hundred hours behind the wheel
of a '67 F1 car? None?

What real life '67 F1 race car driver worked with them on GPL? None?

What season was Dave Kaemmer a F1 driver? '67? 70's, 80's, or 90's? None?

You CANNOT hope to accurately simulate anything without the feedback of the
drivers who ACTUALLY  drive those cars. Absolutely impossible.

I do believe that Ubi Soft had 3-4 F1 drivers try their sim before it was
released and they thought that Ubi Soft did a very good job at simulating
the feel of driving a F1 car. Someone else will have to provide you with the
names but Verstoppen was one.  Papyrus had no '67 F1 drivers try GPL? Why
didn't they have one working with them at length when trying to simulate
cars from 30 years ago?

If I ever own a sim company and make an F1 sim,  there is NO WAY I would
EVER let it be released without the input of an actual real life driver of
the car testing and providing feeback. The only sim I will ever be satisfied
with is one that makes a real driver say, "Wow, this is fantastic. I can use
this for training." ONLY an F1 driver can tell me what it feels like to
drive an F1 car.  No one here at r.a.s. or Papyrus can. Real life F1 (CART,
whatever) drivers are not yet too impressed by sims. If they aren't, then
sims still have a LOOONG way to go and this ridiculous debating that goes on
here at r.a.s. about which sim is "the best" is ridiculous. It's also
embaressing because I have no doubt the real drivers would look at us like a
bunch of geeks if they read what  so many of us write on this newsgroup.

I've said 1,000 times I like GPL but sit back and watch yourself while
racing it. Watch a friend. The delicateness required is ridiculous and is in
NO WAY realistic. No shoes so we can massage the pedals with our toes,  and
a feather touch on the wheel while turning at 180 mph. Turns are made while
the wheel moves a whole inch and a half. Ever watch a real F1 driver yank
the wheel while racing? Pop in a tape of '67 F1 drivers and see how they
work the wheel. Nothing at all delicate about it. People (at Papyrus
including Kaemmer) even use joysticks. Sorry, but an 80 year old grandpa
drives his Cadillac on a Sunday with 10 times more gusto than I need to with
GPL.

I know that neither company has any reason to think they are more qualified
than the other without splitting hairs. They are not real life F1 drivers
(past or present). They do not have real life F1 drivers working with them.
They do not have a '67 or '98 F1 car at their headquarters which they drive
at Monza daily.

David G Fisher

Errrr, David was a racecar driver Im about sure, but still, better at least
go to a school than not going to like per example the Ubi team. Maybe we
should make a money collect and pay you a trip to Jim Russel.  You would
finally understand how a car really reacts on a race track. I mean let's
see...

- People who have drove a racecar here and tried every sim on the market
tell that GPL is the most realistic and very close to the real thing.

- People who haven't drover a racecar (per example, you) say that it's
unrealistic and still praise for such ***as C:PR.

I see a pattern up here.

But.. but.. but.. as you say "Nobody has drove a F1 here".  Bullsh*t.
Racing is racing.  Any experimented race car driver knows what is the
feeling behind the car, whatever type of racing he does.

Let's take per example somebody who does Sport Biking. Will you go to him
and say "You got no idea how a Touring bike can be drove on a track".  It's
as simple as that.

I've seen F1 driver to say that F1RS is realistic.  I've seen F1 drivers say
that F1'97 is realistic.  I've seen F1 drivers say that Gp2 is realistic.
You even have Jonny Herbert saying his game is realistic.  But when you ask
people with racing experience who tested all those titles AND Gpl, they can
easily see that it's superior and by far.  Im talking about F1600 drivers,
some people here with racing experience, Australian Touring drivers, etc...
Even some Vintage car driver told it's superior !!!! What do you want more
????

Sir Jack Brabham.

This is irrelevant. Driving a race car, any type is it, requires the same
skill but differently adapted. A Touring driver will know how a Nascar can
act.  A Rallye driver will know how a IndyCar reacts on a track. It's plain
basic racing technique and skills.

I never knew if you did some racing in your real-life ? Did you ?

Not with mathematics my dear.  Of course, nobody in the Ubisoft has NEVER
drove a racecar except 2guys.  Compared to most of the crew at Papy.  And
the same goes for C:PR. What developer was a past CART driver ? heh the ball
goes back to you David.

False. Forgot Sir Jack Brabham ? Oh and Papyrus shipped a version of GPL to
all the drivers and families of 1967 (that's what Mike Lescault told me).

They did.

Oh well you haven't talked with Mr. Carpentier my dear.  I chatted with him
for at least 30mins about his relations with racing simulators, and he
clearly said he used them to stay in shape mentally and that Icr2 was
seriously representative of how a CART car reacts except that there is no
brake locking or wheel spin. But he understand it's a 3year old title.

Because every hard-core simracer and race-car driver here will tell you
which one it is.

Some of us are directly or indirectly race car drivers, or acts as helper on
a team, mechanic, etc..

Errrr, we're become back to the "edge of your pants" thingy.  That's not the
point here.  We all know it's lacking. But what do you want to do ? Go ahead
an pay yourself a real racecar.  But until then sit down in front of your
monitor and shut up ;)

And if Race car drivers in real-life could use a Joystick like in military
aircrafts, who said it wouldn't be the best choice ?

And about the wheel locking, if you want you can buy a replica of a GPL
wheel.  It's bigger in diameter, thus the turns are longer to make in
circonference. That's plain Geometry.  Oh and calibrate your wheel so that
30degree on your wheel = 30 degrees on screen.  Bad point another time.

I can agree on this point.

So for you, anything is bad until Damon Hill decides to program his own
simulator. Yeah right.

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard!
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide <NAS-Frank> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

For one read Jackie Stewart's Book on driving.  He was one of the few
drivers who was very addimant about being gentle with the car,  making sure
you were not on the bump stops before entering a corner and being smooth.
He also has shown many F1 drivers how to be fast without jerking on the
steering wheel, and being smooth on the throttle and brakes in application,
to keep a high powered car settled.  Many of Stewart's discussions on
driving apply to my racing, so don't go on aobut howyou have to beat on a
car to go fast,  I am very typically faster by being smooth and keeping car
hooked up then gross wheel, throttle and brake movements.    

Also to use Niki Lauda's phrase on driving modern Formula One cars into
corners, esp ground effect cars was lift, hit the brakes turn it, and hang
on, if you screwed up hope that it doesn't hurt to much.  

Dave

Also I hate seeing petty nationalism like this - I feel embarassed that a fellow countryman is
prepared to slag off another's country. Please feel welcome in London (my home town) and have a good
time,

Paul