rec.autos.simulators

by **daxe** » Fri, 21 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Hey RASers,

In the newest issue of Car and Driver magazine (May2000) they put seven
FF wheels through their paces using MS Midtown Madness and Ubisoft's Monaco
Grand Prix on a Gateway P3/450 with 128M (no further specs mentioned).

The four wheels they reported on were the Thrustmaster NASCAR Force GT,
the Logitech Wingman Formula Force, the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback
and the Act Labs Force RS. They enlisted Mark Szabo from www.force-1.com to
help them out.

The also have a sidebar where they tested the non-FF ECCI CDS4000 Monza
F1 and the TSW Formula '99. In the end, they decided that the ECCI was the
best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any of the FF
wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet. Of the FF wheels,
they ranked:

#4 Thrustmaster
#3 Logitech
#2 MSFF
#1 Act Labs Force RS

They say their complete FF roundup will be available on their website May
1st

www.caranddriver.com

~daxe

by **Andrew Turne** » Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Thanks for the info daxe!

Well, OK, let's see now...

The non-ff TSW Formula '99 = $1000.

The non-ff ECCI Monza is $1400.

They tested Midtown Madness.

My thinking here is that C&D isn't yet "mature enough" to realize I'm not gonna
spend $1400 on a sim wheel (as much as I'd like to).

They can bite my ass. Twice, maybe three times.

You know, they also rated the '99 Ferrari Formula One cars higher than the '99
Ford Mustang even though the Ferrari is not a true "Street Car" and has no CD
player. ;)

I think I'll take the Act Labs please.

Andrew

> Hey RASers,

> In the newest issue of Car and Driver magazine (May2000) they put seven
> FF wheels through their paces using MS Midtown Madness and Ubisoft's Monaco
> Grand Prix on a Gateway P3/450 with 128M (no further specs mentioned).

> The four wheels they reported on were the Thrustmaster NASCAR Force GT,
> the Logitech Wingman Formula Force, the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback
> and the Act Labs Force RS. They enlisted Mark Szabo from www.force-1.com to
> help them out.

> The also have a sidebar where they tested the non-FF ECCI CDS4000 Monza
> F1 and the TSW Formula '99. In the end, they decided that the ECCI was the
> best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any of the FF
> wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet. Of the FF wheels,
> they ranked:

> #4 Thrustmaster
> #3 Logitech
> #2 MSFF
> #1 Act Labs Force RS

> They say their complete FF roundup will be available on their website May
> 1st

> www.caranddriver.com

> ~daxe

by **mas..** » Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>Thanks for the info daxe!

>Well, OK, let's see now...

>The non-ff TSW Formula '99 = $1000.

>The non-ff ECCI Monza is $1400.

>They tested Midtown Madness.

>My thinking here is that C&D isn't yet "mature enough" to realize I'm not gonna
>spend $1400 on a sim wheel (as much as I'd like to).

>They can bite my ass. Twice, maybe three times.

Bite your own. I don't know why you are making a federal case of it. The
brunt of the report was on 7 or so affordable FF wheels with this little
separate sidebar on the high-end ones. They addressed both crowds. And, as
you might have noticed from this ng, there are some fan(atic)s here who do
indeed purchase the high-buck wheels. Just as there are a few lucky (ie rich)
souls who purchase Ferraris.

by **Andrew Turne** » Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Settle down, Dave.

1) I'd bite my own if I could.

2) I don't work for the feds.

3) Yes, It was in a sidebar, but according to daxe,

"In the end, they decided that the ECCI was the
best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any of the FF
wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet."

Well, saying these thousand-dollar wheels are "better" than the hundred-dollar FF
wheels is silly. Obviously they still picked a favorite "low-budget" wheel.

4) I didn't mean to offend *** simmers. I didn't know *** simmers played
Midtown Madness.

5) I'd love a thousand dollar wheel. Don't get me wrong. I guess they are for the
simmers that don't need a $1300 system upgrade or purchase in combo with a $200
wheel setup, or for the simmers for whom a $200-$500 wheel just won't cut it. My
mistake.

6) You don't have to be lucky to be rich, unless you meant e.g. instead of i.e.

7) Seriously, no offense intended, I didn't mean to insult your tender disposition.

Regards,
Andrew

> >Thanks for the info daxe!

> >Well, OK, let's see now...

> >The non-ff TSW Formula '99 = $1000.

> >The non-ff ECCI Monza is $1400.

> >They tested Midtown Madness.

> >My thinking here is that C&D isn't yet "mature enough" to realize I'm not gonna
> >spend $1400 on a sim wheel (as much as I'd like to).

> >They can bite my ass. Twice, maybe three times.

> Bite your own. I don't know why you are making a federal case of it. The
> brunt of the report was on 7 or so affordable FF wheels with this little
> separate sidebar on the high-end ones. They addressed both crowds. And, as
> you might have noticed from this ng, there are some fan(atic)s here who do
> indeed purchase the high-buck wheels. Just as there are a few lucky (ie rich)
> souls who purchase Ferraris.

by **jbo..** » Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:00:00

FYI, they reviewed non-FF wheels LAST year -- and that's when they
selected the TSW over their number-two pick, ECCI (which also tied with
the CH Products wheel for second).

Keep in mind that there are still some people who feel that FF is just
a gimmick. Which might explain why we're not seeing any second-
generation FF wheels emerge, while there are plenty of new non-FF
models emerging on a regular basis.

-- JB

> Thanks for the info daxe!

> Well, OK, let's see now...

> The non-ff TSW Formula '99 = $1000.

> The non-ff ECCI Monza is $1400.

> They tested Midtown Madness.

> My thinking here is that C&D isn't yet "mature enough" to realize I'm
not gonna
> spend $1400 on a sim wheel (as much as I'd like to).

> They can bite my ass. Twice, maybe three times.

> You know, they also rated the '99 Ferrari Formula One cars higher
than the '99
> Ford Mustang even though the Ferrari is not a true "Street Car" and
has no CD
> player. ;)

> I think I'll take the Act Labs please.

> Andrew

> > Hey RASers,

> > In the newest issue of Car and Driver magazine (May2000) they
put seven
> > FF wheels through their paces using MS Midtown Madness and
Ubisoft's Monaco
> > Grand Prix on a Gateway P3/450 with 128M (no further specs
mentioned).

> > The four wheels they reported on were the Thrustmaster NASCAR
Force GT,
> > the Logitech Wingman Formula Force, the Microsoft Sidewinder Force
Feedback
> > and the Act Labs Force RS. They enlisted Mark Szabo from www.force-
1.com to
> > help them out.

> > The also have a sidebar where they tested the non-FF ECCI
CDS4000 Monza
> > F1 and the TSW Formula '99. In the end, they decided that the ECCI
was the
> > best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any of
the FF
> > wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet. Of the FF
wheels,
> > they ranked:

> > #4 Thrustmaster
> > #3 Logitech
> > #2 MSFF
> > #1 Act Labs Force RS

> > They say their complete FF roundup will be available on their
website May
> > 1st

> > www.caranddriver.com

> > ~daxe

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **jbo..** » Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Andrew,

On the subject of non-FF wheels, keep in mind that there are some VERY
nice non-FF wheels in the budget end of the spectrum, as well. I've
been using a Thrustmaster Super Sport for over a month in preparation
for a review, and even though I own 2 TSW wheels (a basic and a TSW2),
I'm finding the TM Super Sport to be a VERY decent wheel (even if it is
a "Bustmaster" product! <G>). Once you get them to stop moving, the TM
pedals are some of the best I've ever used (INCLUDING the TSW pedals),
and the wheel itself works very nicely -- not bad for $25, eh?

;-)

-- JB

> Settle down, Dave.

> 1) I'd bite my own if I could.

> 2) I don't work for the feds.

> 3) Yes, It was in a sidebar, but according to daxe,

> "In the end, they decided that the ECCI was the
> best wheel you could get and either non-FF was better than any of the
FF
> wheels because the FF is just not 'mature' enough yet."

> Well, saying these thousand-dollar wheels are "better" than the
hundred-dollar FF
> wheels is silly. Obviously they still picked a favorite "low-budget"
wheel.

> 4) I didn't mean to offend *** simmers. I didn't know ***
simmers played
> Midtown Madness.

> 5) I'd love a thousand dollar wheel. Don't get me wrong. I guess they
are for the
> simmers that don't need a $1300 system upgrade or purchase in combo
with a $200
> wheel setup, or for the simmers for whom a $200-$500 wheel just won't
cut it. My
> mistake.

> 6) You don't have to be lucky to be rich, unless you meant e.g.
instead of i.e.

> 7) Seriously, no offense intended, I didn't mean to insult your
tender disposition.

> Regards,
> Andrew

> > >Thanks for the info daxe!

> > >Well, OK, let's see now...

> > >The non-ff TSW Formula '99 = $1000.

> > >The non-ff ECCI Monza is $1400.

> > >They tested Midtown Madness.

> > >My thinking here is that C&D isn't yet "mature enough" to realize
I'm not gonna
> > >spend $1400 on a sim wheel (as much as I'd like to).

> > >They can bite my ass. Twice, maybe three times.

> > Bite your own. I don't know why you are making a federal case of
it. The
> > brunt of the report was on 7 or so affordable FF wheels with this
little
> > separate sidebar on the high-end ones. They addressed both crowds.
And, as
> > you might have noticed from this ng, there are some fan(atic)s here
who do
> > indeed purchase the high-buck wheels. Just as there are a few
lucky (ie rich)
> > souls who purchase Ferraris.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Before you buy.

by **Brett C. Camma** » Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>Once you get them to stop moving, the TM
>pedals are some of the best I've ever used (INCLUDING the TSW pedals),
>and the wheel itself works very nicely -- not bad for $25, eh?

I have tile floors in my home and this was a considerable issue with
my TM Nascar Pro. The solution turned out to be quite simple. In the
section of your local Kmart, Walmart, or Target store where they sell
kitchen stuff and/or shelf paper, there's some ***y, molded
waffle-weave stuff that's sold in rolls for lining kitchen shelves.
This stuff is wonderfully non-skid and *cheap*. I've cut a square and
put it under the cat's bowls so she doesn't chase them all over the
kitchen while eating. I've cut lengths of it to put under throw rugs
so you don't end up surfing half-way across the living room on them.
The best use is to cut a rectangle and put it under the pedals of your
TM wheel's pedal unit. It *won't* move around under you anymore!
This stuff's terrific...

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL

by **Tim O** » Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>Keep in mind that there are still some people who feel that FF is just
>a gimmick. Which might explain why we're not seeing any second-
>generation FF wheels emerge, while there are plenty of new non-FF
>models emerging on a regular basis.

>-- JB

I think this is solely because a non-FF wheel is cheap to develop.
FF wheels will not be changed as often because they need longer to
recoup the development costs before re-investing.
I paid under $100 for my Logitech a few months after it came out.
At that price, you have to expect them to have a longer product cycle.

I've never had the chance to try a high end wheel like an ECCI, but I
can tell you that if I have $1700, I'd buy a beat up CJ-7 and have
some real-life driving fun (which I did).

As far as C&D's comments go...
I like reading Car & Driver because the writers are funny, but when
they say a $48,000 BMW is a great value, I realize that I'm dealing
with people who haven't shelled out cash for transportation in a long
time.

Tim

by **Kurt Steinboc** » Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:00:00

You're right, Brett! I use the same stuff, even though I've got carpet, and
it works great. Cheap, too.

Kurt

by J » Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:00:00

If they test Midtown madness, they are not mature enough.

Sorry, couldn't resist but mean it.

Jens

<snip>>>
<snip>
---------------------------------------------

Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

JensSchumi homepage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/
Racing simulation, esp. GPL
Logitech Wingman FF optimization
Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor
Radio controlled airplanes

rec.autos.simulators

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue

Car and Driver reviews FF wheels this issue